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Post by erick on Nov 2, 2015 16:59:22 GMT -7
I was wondering if we could use some of our collective knowledge to make a thread for collecting suggested grips to train for major climbing areas. So if someone from the east coast was making a trip to maple canyon or smith they would have a place to look and see what are the major grip patterns to train when hangboarding. Everyone will have their own personal weakness they will want to work but it would be nice to know what locals and regulars train if you are going somewhere you have never been. I will go first and feel free to critique me since many others will know MUCH better than I.
For a 5.11/12 climber headed to Smith Rocks I would make sure you include at least
Large edge (to train rests)
2 or 3 finger pocket, shallow or medium (maybe both)
small edge semi-closed or crimp edge
narrow pinch (for the little pebbles)
What do you think?
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Post by MarkAnderson on Nov 3, 2015 8:36:55 GMT -7
Cool idea. I suggest we create a matrix. First come up with a more-or-less comprehensive list of grips, then a more-or-less comprehensive list of crags and organize the two thusly:
| Crags: | Typical 5.12 Steepness (degrees)
| Typical 5.13 Steepness
| Typical 5.14 Steepnees
| Climb Length (# hand moves)
| Large Open Edge | Small Semi Closed Edge | Closed Crimp | IM pocket | MR Pocket | Mono
| Wide Pinch | Narrow Pinch | Sloper | | Smith Rock | 80-90
| 90-100
| 90-110
| 40-100
| ** | *** | *** | ** | ** | *
| | | | | Red River Gorge | 90-110
| 100-135
| 110-135
| 60?
| *** | *** | * | ** | ** |
| | | * | | New River Gorge | 80-100
| 90-120
| 110-120?
| 60?
| *** | *** | *** | * | * |
| | | * | | Rifle | 90-120
| 100-120
| 110-135
| 60-80
| *** | ** | * | ** | ** |
| *** | *** | * | | Maple | 90-110
| 110-180
| 135-180?
| 60-100
| *** | * | | *** | *** |
| *** | *** | *** | | Rumney | 80-110
| 90-120
| 100-120
| 20
| * | *** | *** | | |
| *** | *** | * | Wild Iris
| 90-120
| 100-135
| 110-135
| 10-20
| *
| **
| ***
| ***
| ***
| ***
| *
| **
|
| Sinks Canyon
| 80-100
| 90-120
| 100-120
| 20-30
| *
| ***
| ***
| ***
| ***
| ***
|
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| | Ceuse | 90-100
| 100-110
| 100-120?
| 60-100?
| * | *** | *** | *** | *** | *
| * | * | | | Frankenjura | 90-135
| 110-135
| 110-135?
| 10-50
| | *** | *** | *** | *** | ***
| | | | | Rodellar | 90-110
| 110-135
| 110-180?
| 40-100
| ** | ** | * | *** | *** | *
| *** | *** | |
NOTE 1: Key to star ratings: *** = critical grip for the crag/often limiting
** = often encountered/occasionally limiting
* = occasionally encountered/rarely limiting
No star = rarely encountered/never limiting
NOTE 2: Steepness estimates ignore brief deviations from the norm. For example, a vertical route with a 4-foot deep horizontal roof would be regarded as 90-degrees steep.
NOTE 3: This table is a work in progress and not necessarily accurate.
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Post by erick on Nov 3, 2015 12:59:44 GMT -7
Cool idea. I suggest we create a matrix. First come up with a more-or-less comprehensive list of grips, then a more-or-less comprehensive list of crags and organize the two thusly:
| Crags: | Large Open Edge | Small Semi Closed Edge | Closed Crimp | IM pocket | MR Pocket | Wide Pinch | Narrow Pinch | Sloper | | Smith Rock | X | X | X | X | X | | | | | Red River Gorge | X | X | | X | X | | | X | | New River Gorge | X | X | X | X | X | | | X | | Rifle | X | | | X | X | X | X | X | | Maple | X | | | X | X | X | X | X | | Rumney | | X | X | | | X | X | X | | Ceuse | | X | X | X | X | X | X | | | Frankenjura | | X | X | X | X | | | | | Rodellar | | | | X | X | X | X | |
(Note: Table is notional and not necessarily correct)
I really like this table, is there a way to set up a large table that we could all add different areas to and "vote" on what grips are important to train? Once its completed this could be a really cool addition to your book once you put out a updated edition. |
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Post by MarkAnderson on Nov 3, 2015 19:50:15 GMT -7
We could use Google docs or something. Or people could post their thoughts here and I could update the table posted above as we go.
Another thought, the selections should not be binary. Instead we could have a 1-3 star system or something, where:
*** = critical grip for the crag/often limiting
** = often encountered/occasionally limiting
* = occasionally encountered/rarely limiting
No star = rarely encountered/never limiting
Or something like that.
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Post by Chris W on Nov 3, 2015 21:19:50 GMT -7
Interesting...
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Post by jcm on Nov 4, 2015 11:44:01 GMT -7
Another thought, the selections should not be binary. Instead we could have a 1-3 star system or something, where: *** = critical grip for the crag/often limiting ** = often encountered/occasionally limiting * = occasionally encountered/rarely limiting No star = rarely encountered/never limiting Or something like that. I was about to suggest something along these lines, but you got to it first. I was thinking something like a numerical system (0-3 or 0-5), but the stars work too. This might be scope creep on this idea, but such a chart could have data for training activities beyond the hangboard. For instance, different areas have different angles and lengths to the typical cruxes, which changes the optimum angle and length for a PE circuit/LBC. For instance, the chart might tell you that for a trip to the Red your LBCs should be 30 moves longs, at 30 degrees overhanging, on moderately good incut crimps, while for Tensleep they should be 18 moves long, at 5-10 degrees overhanging, on small crimps and pockets...or something like that. (I'm just making up those numbers, so don't read anything in to them). |
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Post by MarkAnderson on Nov 4, 2015 14:58:38 GMT -7
Another thought, the selections should not be binary. Instead we could have a 1-3 star system or something, where: *** = critical grip for the crag/often limiting ** = often encountered/occasionally limiting * = occasionally encountered/rarely limiting No star = rarely encountered/never limiting Or something like that. I was about to suggest something along these lines, but you got to it first. I was thinking something like a numerical system (0-3 or 0-5), but the stars work too. This might be scope creep on this idea, but such a chart could have data for training activities beyond the hangboard. For instance, different areas have different angles and lengths to the typical cruxes, which changes the optimum angle and length for a PE circuit/LBC. For instance, the chart might tell you that for a trip to the Red your LBCs should be 30 moves longs, at 30 degrees overhanging, on moderately good incut crimps, while for Tensleep they should be 18 moves long, at 5-10 degrees overhanging, on small crimps and pockets...or something like that. (I'm just making up those numbers, so don't read anything in to them). Okay, I added a bunch of columns to the table to address steepness and length (which has obvious limitations), and I added a column for monos, and I replaced the X's with **'s.
Let's get some more grips and crags on the list. I'm not qualified to comment on many of these crags, so let's hear everyone's two cents!
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ericg
New Member
Posts: 42 
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Post by ericg on Nov 4, 2015 18:29:58 GMT -7
Rumney 5.12 80-110, 5.13 90-120, 5.14 100-120. Sloper I would put at 1 *, they are very rare. No need to train pockets
I think you could safely say most routes are less than 20 hand moves. Also, what about 3 finger crimp or half crimp grip? Pretty often I can't get 4 fingers on a hold at Rumney.
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Post by erick on Nov 5, 2015 9:55:50 GMT -7
The Wild Iris, Only been a few times but from memory I would say...
5.12 80-140, 5.13 90-180?, 5.14 100-180? Hand movements 10-50 . For grips I would say, Large Edge **, Small semi closed **, closed crimp *, IM ***, MR ***, Mono **, Wide Pinch *, Narrow Pinch **, Sloper n/a
Someone else knows better than me for sure but from memory I think there was pretty much only pockets and maybe some edges with good thumb catches, but not a lot of real crimps so thats what I would train if I was going back.
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Post by MarkAnderson on Nov 7, 2015 7:32:20 GMT -7
The Wild Iris, Only been a few times but from memory I would say... 5.12 80-140, 5.13 90-180?, 5.14 100-180? Hand movements 10-50 . For grips I would say, Large Edge **, Small semi closed **, closed crimp *, IM ***, MR ***, Mono **, Wide Pinch *, Narrow Pinch **, Sloper n/a Someone else knows better than me for sure but from memory I think there was pretty much only pockets and maybe some edges with good thumb catches, but not a lot of real crimps so thats what I would train if I was going back. This brings up a good point: how to treat brief horizontal-ish roofs? I think if we include horizontal roofs, every crag will be listed as at least 180 degrees steep, which would not be helpful. So I suggest we just assume that every crag has deviations and irregularities, but the point of the "steepness" column is to indicate the mode, realizing there will be exceptions. On the other hand if you have entire crags with routes that are mostly horizontal-ish (such as Pipe Dream at Maple), then we would list the crag as up to 180 degrees. |
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Post by erick on Nov 8, 2015 10:50:07 GMT -7
This brings up a good point: how to treat brief horizontal-ish roofs? Thats what I was trying to figure out myself. Lots of roofs at the wild iris but otherwise mostly just vertical to slightly overhanging rock. |
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Post by jessebruni on Nov 9, 2015 13:27:30 GMT -7
Wow, this is really cool, Love this idea! It's clear from this table that nearly every location has a "don't bother" hold that you'll almost never encounter, and that almost every area requires a moderate to high level of small semi-closed edge. Wish I had info to contribute but unless someone wants to know how to train for Reimers Ranch in Tx, all the area's I know have already been covered.
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Post by MarkAnderson on Nov 10, 2015 10:03:33 GMT -7
Wish I had info to contribute but unless someone wants to know how to train for Reimers Ranch in Tx, all the area's I know have already been covered. LOL
Ok, I updated the table with all the inputs up to this point.
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Post by latestart on Nov 10, 2015 11:31:17 GMT -7
Seems like this topic is a good candidate for a sticky. Would be interesting to have a boulder version as well.
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Post by jlarson on Nov 14, 2015 13:30:46 GMT -7
Anyone have input on the VRG?
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