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Post by Elvis K on Nov 28, 2015 15:00:40 GMT -7
Does anyone train both the wide and medium pinch? I train both but I may cut one of them out. Which would be preferable to train with? I would assume wide pinch would me more beneficial to train than the medium pinch, but idk.
This is my current grip order on the forge:
WU - Large edge MR shallow Full crimp Wide pinch Slopey crimp (which i love btw) IM shallow Medium pinch
I do not like training the mono btw so I have excluded it.
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Post by MarkAnderson on Nov 29, 2015 13:34:57 GMT -7
I train just the Wide Pinch. I used to train just the Med Pinch, but then I hit a pretty firm plateau, so I switched to the Wide. I've been making pretty continual progress on the Wide, so I plan to stick with it until that changes.
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Post by Chris W on Nov 30, 2015 4:49:59 GMT -7
I keep debating how to grip that pinch. I grab it with the interphalangeal joint of the thumb hooking the edge of the pinch and the pad of the thumb pressing into the grip. Can't decide if this is cheating and I should only be pressing with the pad of the thumb. Either way, it's potentially my most hated grip.
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Post by MarkAnderson on Nov 30, 2015 16:03:12 GMT -7
I keep debating how to grip that pinch. I grab it with the interphalangeal joint of the thumb hooking the edge of the pinch and the pad of the thumb pressing into the grip. Can't decide if this is cheating and I should only be pressing with the pad of the thumb. Either way, it's potentially my most hated grip. Does the skin at the distal end of what would be the second pad bunch up (potentially forming a callous/blister/flapper)? I avoid that, mostly for skin injury reasons, but as long as your skin is safe I would say anything goes on the thumb side.
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Post by Chris W on Nov 30, 2015 21:24:17 GMT -7
No flapper bunching. I had that problem with the 3 finger pocket and ultimately decided to drop it in favor of the sloper.
I need to look back at my thumb anatomy...
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jdb
New Member
Posts: 14
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Post by jdb on Dec 8, 2015 5:04:01 GMT -7
Hi, I am also looking to change the grips I've been training a bit, due to moving from the beginners to intermediate routine. I am planning to use the grips recommended in the book for the intermediate routine, although I will keep using the deepest (3 finger) pocket for the MR grip, as I am still taking quite a lot of weight off on that one.
I am however thinking of changing the order up a bit. The main reason for this is I noticed that the Large edge (4 finger open) grip on the largest part of the LVDER was causing some pain in my Index fingers. This seemed weird to me as the index finger should be in a pretty safe position here I would have thought. My theory is that because I was training it immediately after training MR, my MR fingers were still fatigued and not contributing as much as they should, therefore placing more pressure on the Index fingers. So want to avoid putting MR before an edge grip (large edge/medium edge/possibly narrow pinch as well).
Was thinking of something like the following:
Jug (Warmup) Large edge (LVDER) Wide pinch Medium edge (SVDER) IMR deep pocket Narrow pinch MR deep pocket (pushes this quite far back, hasn't been tweaky so far but have been very conservative with weight) Sloper
or
Jug (Warmup) Large edge (LVDER) MR deep pocket Wide pinch (wide pinch here to recover before tweakier edge) Medium edge (SVDER) (pushes this quite far back) IMR deep pocket Narrow pinch (pushes this far back, although is last in the suggested order - is this not a tweaky grip?) Sloper
These are the best I can come up with trying to accomplish the above, while also trying to keep tweakier grips earlier as has been suggested. Any feedback would be great.
A couple things I have been wondering also..
1) How similar are the VDER grips to the narrow pinch grip. I believe that the narrow pinch will use similar joint angles to a crimp? Does it make sense to separate these grips or should it not matter much? I thought that Large edge / Narrow pinch / Medium edge in a row might be too much, even though narrow pinch will likely be a tweakier grip than the wide pinch (have not used the narrow pinch before)
2) Is the wide pinch / narrow pinch combo strictly better than medium pinch / narrow pinch due to more variance in the joint angles. Or could medium pinch / narrow pinch be just as good?
Thanks
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Post by MarkAnderson on Dec 8, 2015 8:57:15 GMT -7
Of the two sequences you posted, I think the second is better. However, the index finger pain seems odd. Investigate that more and see if you can fix it. It probably has more to do with ergonomics than grip order. Do you have an adjustable-width mount? If you don't and you're using the deepest part of the Large VDER, then your hands are probably really close together during this grip. That could be the problem. Or, perhaps you are trying to force your Index finger too deep into the slot.
1) I don't think they are really very similar.
2) Wide Pinch/Narrow Pinch probably makes more sense. The difference between Medium and Narrow is relatively small, although that may depend someone on your own hand size/shape. For my hands, the joint angles between Narrow/Med are pretty similar, but once I go Wide the angles change completely.
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jdb
New Member
Posts: 14
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Post by jdb on Dec 10, 2015 5:01:19 GMT -7
However, the index finger pain seems odd. Investigate that more and see if you can fix it. It probably has more to do with ergonomics than grip order. Do you have an adjustable-width mount? If you don't and you're using the deepest part of the Large VDER, then your hands are probably really close together during this grip. That could be the problem. Or, perhaps you are trying to force your Index finger too deep into the slot.Wow, your completely right about this I think. Had been thinking about the ergonomics a bit and was going to move the grip to a slightly smaller section of the LVDER, just in case where I was holding it was pressing on a joint in a strange way or something. However it must just be because I was pushing my Index finger all the way to the back. Had never thought about it, but now you mention it, it makes zero sense ergonomically to do that. As where the Index finger is placed is on a slightly deeper section of the VDER than the middle finger, but my index finger is quite a bit shorter than my middle finger. Can't believe I never realised that! Think I just tried to grab as much of the hold as possible, and never thought about it, as it was not uncomfortable until the last few sessions of a season when the weight started getting higher. Regarding the width, from memory my hands are just slightly closer together than shoulder width when holding that grip. I've had the sensation a couple times that my middle finger is rolling onto the index a bit, but I think this might just be because of how I am placing my fingers rather than the width. I would like to set up an adjustable mount, but cutting french cleats is way beyond my limited woodworking abilities. Thanks
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Post by MarkAnderson on Dec 10, 2015 18:36:03 GMT -7
Wow, your completely right about this I think. Had been thinking about the ergonomics a bit and was going to move the grip to a slightly smaller section of the LVDER, just in case where I was holding it was pressing on a joint in a strange way or something. However it must just be because I was pushing my Index finger all the way to the back. I would consider adding a spacer (out of cardboard or something) to prevent you from stuffing your index finger in. It's human nature to try to get as much of the finger in as possibly as the grip becomes progressively more difficult. I would like to set up an adjustable mount, but cutting french cleats is way beyond my limited woodworking abilities. There is a thing called a "Z Cleat" that you can buy from Amazon that works just as well as a home-made French Cleat. I used one for my Forge mount and it works great and was much easier to build. I will post a tutorial some day, but you can probably figure it out yourself.
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Post by avaserfi on Dec 10, 2015 19:35:08 GMT -7
Wow, your completely right about this I think. Had been thinking about the ergonomics a bit and was going to move the grip to a slightly smaller section of the LVDER, just in case where I was holding it was pressing on a joint in a strange way or something. However it must just be because I was pushing my Index finger all the way to the back. I would consider adding a spacer (out of cardboard or something) to prevent you from stuffing your index finger in. It's human nature to try to get as much of the finger in as possibly as the grip becomes progressively more difficult. I would like to set up an adjustable mount, but cutting french cleats is way beyond my limited woodworking abilities. There is a thing called a "Z Cleat" that you can buy from Amazon that works just as well as a home-made French Cleat. I used one for my Forge mount and it works great and was much easier to build. I will post a tutorial some day, but you can probably figure it out yourself. Which z cleat did you end up using? I considered getting one in the past, but the weight ratings on all of the z cleats I saw seemed fairly low for hang boarding.
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Post by MarkAnderson on Dec 11, 2015 8:05:28 GMT -7
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jdb
New Member
Posts: 14
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Post by jdb on Dec 11, 2015 9:44:46 GMT -7
There is a thing called a "Z Cleat" that you can buy from Amazon that works just as well as a home-made French Cleat. I used one for my Forge mount and it works great and was much easier to build. I will post a tutorial some day, but you can probably figure it out yourself. Looks great. Think I'll definitely have a go at setting that up for next season.
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Post by Chris W on Dec 12, 2015 4:20:39 GMT -7
So yesterday morning I completed HB 7 (out of 9 total sessions) and got a thorough butt beating. The only grip with completed sets was the last one, the sloper, and this is likely because I had to dial it back 10 pounds after the first session. I made several assumptions when switching from the intermediate to the advanced protocol, and I'm wondering if they were correct.
Assumption 1) PB (personal best) 6 reps baseline = PB 5 reps [baseline +10]
Assumption 2) PB 6 rep baseline intermediate protocol = PB 6 rep baseline advanced protocol
When I changed my grips this season, I basically kept the grip order the same. I don't have any real clear indicator that my assumptions are NOT correct, but I do find it extremely frustrating when I do not progress the weight from session to session. This is bound to happen, though, as I get stronger. This leaves me with several more questions.
Question 1) Does the PERFORMANCE benefit of PB 6 reps baseline = PB 5 reps baseline or Question 2) Does the PERFORMANCE benefit of PB 6 reps baseline = PB 5 reps [baseline +10]
This HB season will end on Thursday morning, so I'll see where things end up. I'm inclined to use my PB from this season (first with advanced protocol) as a new benchmark to plan the spring HB season.
Any experience or thoughts on the above ramblings?
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Post by MarkAnderson on Dec 12, 2015 13:57:59 GMT -7
I don't have the answer to either of your questions. Maybe some others can provide some data points. However, I would encourage you to read (or re-read) this and consider that while a phase may appear poor on paper, you really have no baseline for what is poor and what is stellar. It might take a few seasons of using the new routine and new grips to really develop an accurate frame of reference.
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Post by Chris W on Dec 12, 2015 21:27:34 GMT -7
Thanks for the perspective. BTW, the photo of Spank the Monkey is awesome! I'd love to travel to Smith some day before I get too old and brittle.
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