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Post by jorgemendoza on May 13, 2015 14:41:49 GMT -7
Rather than start a new thread, I'm hoping to piggy back on this one. I have been doing the intermediate hangboard workout with great success (and no plateaus) for the last year, but I've modified it a little. Instead of using 1 "warmup" grip and 7 "working" grips, I've only used one warm up and 6 grips. I initially did this to work around time constraints. Now I'm thinking of changing things to include a total of 8 grips. The grips, in order, are: -warm up jug -LVDER open hand -deep 2 finger pocket IM -Wide pinch -SVDER half crimp -3 finger slot MRP -sloper I would like to add a 2 finger pocket MR grip. Should I: 1) Add the MR 2 finger pocket after the MRP? This would keep my data consistent, except for the sloper, which isn't a big deal. It would put 2 grips together (MRP and MR) that seem very similar 2) Add the MR 2 finger pocket after the sloper? Would keep all my data consistent, but would be putting a grip I care more about after a grip I care less about. 3) Add the MR somewhere else? 4) Leave my workout the way it is, since it is working well? 5) Forget it all and advance to the advanced workout protocol?
Chris, I really like MRP, and I have found it handy on climbs outside. I am stronger with MRP than with MR (that little piggy does help me), and I have found it useful in pockets where my chubby IMR won't fit. But, that's my personal experience.
This is how I implemented my finger pockets. I trained MRP and IMR in the cycles previous to this protocol.
- Warm up Jug - MR - SVDER - MRP - Sloper - IM - Pinch
I feel MR is trained better at the beginning, when you are full of energy. IM feels tired by the end, but this grip feels less tweaky for me. Kept training MRP with the idea that in the following cycles I would add RP.
Hope this helps.
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Post by Chris W on May 14, 2015 2:24:10 GMT -7
However, I think its odd you're doing the pinch so early. Is that a really important grip for you? I would do the half crimp there, and put the pinch later (maybe just swap it with half crimp): -warm up jug -LVDER open hand -MR -SVDER half crimp -IM -Wide pinch -3 finger slot MRP -sloper Thanks so much for the insight guys. I'm definitely training for the long term. I was going to phase out the MRP, but there was another thread on here somewhere that talked about training the pinkie that convinced me to keep the grip.
Pockets aren't my main priority, but there are some pretty cool routes at my local crag with some drilled pockets (it's an old quarry). I also have some small holds that I end up either crimping or open-handing with only an IM or MR because there isn't enough room for other fingers.
The pinch isn't super important, but it is super weak. It makes sense to move it down the line. I felt it helped when I noticed a subtle thumb catch on a route crux this spring.
Overall, I like the above order and think I'll use it for my next cycle. Now I just have to decide it I'm going to copy the bubble concept in my barn...
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Post by Chris W on Nov 16, 2015 6:08:52 GMT -7
So it's almost time to stop goofing off and train again for my winter transitional season. I've got about 8 weeks until baby #3 comes and I start training for the spring. Two main issues:
1) Should I change from the intermediate to advanced protocol? This would increase the weight I'm hanging, but decrease the number of grips I use.
2) What grips to cut out? I like them all...
So far, I've done, in order: -Warm up jug -LVDER open hand (needs to be downsized) -2 finger pocket MR -SVDER Half Crimp (eternally frustrating trying to keep an objective joint angle) -2 finger pocket IM -wide pinch -3 finger slot MRP (skin pain killer) -sloper
-I plan to change the half crimp to the full crimp (via the thin RPTC crimp or the Forge). I'm hoping that this change will make the grip angle more objective and easier to qualify and quantify. It's obvious, now that my climbing is improving, that my crux holds are getting smaller. I know there is a concern about injury when training a full crimp, but I'm crimping outdoors, so I figure I may as well prepare for the inevitable. I'll have to moniter it and make sure it doesn't feel tweaky when I'm training.
-I've thought about cutting out the sloper and moving it to part of the warm up, but I'm not training that grip elsewhere -Thought about cutting out the 3 finger MRP, but I'm not specifically training the pinky elsewhere. I DONT want to do a 2 finger RP. I've torn fascia in my hand doing this grip TWICE in the past. Every time I try it, it feels painfully awkward. -thought about cutting out my open hand edge, but I still feel like this is very applicable -the pinch is way too weak to cut out.
Any thoughts or suggestions?
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Post by Elvis K on Nov 16, 2015 7:37:47 GMT -7
Mark:
Out of curiosity, what grip order to you consistently train strength in?
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Post by Lundy on Nov 16, 2015 8:59:35 GMT -7
Chris, I think some of your decision should be driven by where you climb and your goal routes. However, I'm in a similar boat with young kids and a 65-hour per week job, so don't get outside very much at all. I try, therefore, to train my finger strength a bit more generally than focusing to hard on any specific grip type. the grips I train (using the advanced protocol) are: -LVDER open -MR -Wide pinch -Crimp -IM -SVDER open
I feel like that covers the most general grip positions, but others might have some better thoughts. In particular, using LVDER (inner part, so deepest edge) and SVDER (outer part, so shallowest edge) might be a bit much, but I like training a similar grip with very heavy weight and then much smaller with less weight.
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Post by Chris W on Nov 16, 2015 10:42:01 GMT -7
Birdsboro grips are mainly ledges, edges, and crimps. There are some holds with drilled pockets and the occasional blocky pinch. I slap slopers when I'm bouldering at Governor Stable or Gretna, though my primary focus at this time is route climbing.
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Post by MarkAnderson on Nov 16, 2015 18:05:42 GMT -7
I would cut out the sloper first, and then the MRP. RE: switching to Advanced Routine, how many cycles have you done? Do you still feel like you're improving steadily on the Intermediate routine?
I switched from (what eventually evolved into) the Beginner Routine to (what eventually evolved into) the Advanced Routine when I was right around your grade level (we didn't have the Intermediate Routine). I was a lot younger than you are now though, and improving relatively rapidly. Not sure if/how that is relevant. Obviously there is a lot more difference between B and I than there is between I and A. So it probably doesn't matter too much. The key difference is that there are diminishing returns when you perform multiple sets of the same exercise. The upside is that multiple sets allow you to maximize your gains in that exercise. So it's a trade-off between seeking relatively modest strength gains across many grips, or seeking maximum improvement in only a few grips.
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Post by MarkAnderson on Nov 16, 2015 18:16:00 GMT -7
Mark: Out of curiosity, what grip order to you consistently train strength in? Large Edge (warm up) MR Closed Crimp Mono Semi-Closed Crimp IM Pinch
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Post by Chris W on Nov 16, 2015 21:26:47 GMT -7
I would cut out the sloper first, and then the MRP. RE: switching to Advanced Routine, how many cycles have you done? Do you still feel like you're improving steadily on the Intermediate routine? Mark, I've done a total of 7 cycles so far (4 per year), with my first being right when the RPTC came out. I have continued to have modest improvements in most of the grips. The one with the most improvement, and the most steady, has been the LVDER. This one has gotten to the point that it needs to be downsized so I don't hurt myself (shoulders, mostly).
I've thought about sticking with the intermediate routine vs. switching to the advanced. I don't have an objective observer, but I do feel that finger strength is a limiting factor for me. I thought that, by increasing the weight per grip I could possibly increase strength/hypertrophy more efficiently. So far, I haven't experienced any finger 'tweaks' that would make me hesitant to hang the extra weight.
I have always been better on technical slab/vertical routes than overhanging climbs, especially with small holds. If I had focused on slabs, I may have broken through the 5.12 barrier earlier, but I knew that to improve I had work what I considered hard.
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Post by MarkAnderson on Nov 18, 2015 15:35:56 GMT -7
Well, you could certainly make an argument either way. If you're still making satisfying progress on the Intermediate Routine, you may want to just keep with it and save the big switch for a time when you feel like you're stagnating. But I don't think it would do any harm to switch now, and it might just help, although I bet it would be hard to tell.
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Post by Chris W on Nov 18, 2015 20:25:40 GMT -7
BUMMER! just wrote a post and deleted it accidentally! Probably my rest phase dinner date IPA hard at work.
It's definitely a hard decision to make, but I think now would be a good time to try. I'm going to enter my winter 'transitional' phase soon, so if my experiment doesn't go well, I can always switch back to the intermediate protocol to get ready for spring sending conditions.
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Post by MarkAnderson on Nov 19, 2015 7:50:15 GMT -7
Sounds like the perfect opportunity to experiment.
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Post by slimshaky on Nov 19, 2015 13:20:17 GMT -7
another option might be to add a 3rd set to your 2 or 3 most important grips for your next cycle. most likely the LVDER, SVDER, and MRP. then, at the end of the season you can look at the results and see if it looks ok to make the full transition.
it's kind of funny. when i started doing HB workouts i came from a weightlifting background, so i started off doing 3 sets of each grip. that being said, i wasn't doing monos or RP combos, so i wasn't really doing anything super tweaky. my guess is that if you bumped up to the advanced you would probably be ok. just start your first couple workouts at a conservative level (which is a good idea for any cycle - better to crush the first couple workouts than to get crushed by the first couple workouts).
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Post by Chris W on Nov 22, 2015 11:28:59 GMT -7
Anyone have a decent idea on how to adjust the weight going from the LVDER (largest edge) to the SVDER (largest edge)?
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Post by daustin on Nov 22, 2015 14:03:15 GMT -7
Anyone have a decent idea on how to adjust the weight going from the LVDER (largest edge) to the SVDER (largest edge)? I used the middle part of the SVDER as the 4th grip in my set, and the largest part of the LVDER as the 5th grip (so I'm more fatigued when I use the LVDER). I hang about 85% as much net weight (i.e., including bodyweight) on the SVDER as I do on the LVDER. Obviously can vary dramatically depending on your individual strengths, but that's my experience.
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