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Post by MarkAnderson on Sept 4, 2014 10:47:52 GMT -7
"Colin" asked: Interesting. So I think the issue here is that our definition of "Baseline" is confusing. If you are failing on the 6th rep of the 2nd set, with a resistance of body weight +10kg, then "Baseline" for that exercise is body weight + (~)5.5KG. Note that you are speaking in KG and we are speaking in pounds. (10 pounds = ~ 4.5KG). In the definition, we say Baseline is whatever causes you to fail on the 6th rep of the second set. That sounds like baseline = body weight + 10kg in your example. However, we intended for you to look at the figure, which says resistance for the 2nd set is "Baseline +10 lbs.", and do the math to "solve" for Baseline. So in your case, on the second set: Resistance = Body Weight + 10Kg, = Baseline + 10 lbs. 10lbs = 4.5 Kg, so Resistance = Body Weight + 10Kg, = Baseline + 4.5KG. Subtract 4.5KG from both sides and you get: Body Weight + 5.5KG = Baseline Hope that clears things up  |
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Post by kms951 on Sept 9, 2014 23:05:25 GMT -7
Is there a possible way to create another pulley system of some sort? I have a Metolius Simulator at my local gym and it is hardly used. I have the fan, stopwatch, chalk/toothbrush, and harness. But I do not have access to the pulley system.
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Post by kms951 on Sept 9, 2014 23:07:35 GMT -7
PS, which is considered Supplemental Exercises? Is it the drills in the skills section or something else?
Thanks for reading!
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Post by RyanJohnson on Sept 10, 2014 11:19:01 GMT -7
Is there a possible way to create another pulley system of some sort? I have a Metolius Simulator at my local gym and it is hardly used. I have the fan, stopwatch, chalk/toothbrush, and harness. But I do not have access to the pulley system. Have you asked the gym owner/manager if they'd be willing to install a few eye bolts? It's hard to say without seeing how the hangboard is set up at the gym. Is the board flush against wall? hanging over a doorway? mounted to a beam? Maybe there is a way to girth hitch a sling over the whole board and clip a pulley to that. You could be very careful and drape a few slings over top the jugs at the top of the board. Else...maybe take a few cams with you and stuff them in unused pockets of the board! (half joking.) |
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Post by daustin on Sept 10, 2014 12:50:57 GMT -7
Is there a possible way to create another pulley system of some sort? I have a Metolius Simulator at my local gym and it is hardly used. I have the fan, stopwatch, chalk/toothbrush, and harness. But I do not have access to the pulley system. Have you asked the gym owner/manager if they'd be willing to install a few eye bolts? It's hard to say without seeing how the hangboard is set up at the gym. Is the board flush against wall? hanging over a doorway? mounted to a beam? Maybe there is a way to girth hitch a sling over the whole board and clip a pulley to that. You could be very careful and drape a few slings over top the jugs at the top of the board. Else...maybe take a few cams with you and stuff them in unused pockets of the board! (half joking.) My gym has a selection of hangboards that are all mounted to a beam that is a foot or so off the wall. I do exactly as you described: girth hitch a couple slings around the beam and clip pulleys to that. After spending a couple sessions getting used to rigging the set up and being able to move from board to board between sets (the gym doesn't have a RPTC unfortunately), it's actually quite functional. The gym is in the middle of major renovations, so their story is that installing eye bolts and pulleys is just too low on the priority list to make any commitment around when it might happen. |
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Post by MarkAnderson on Sept 10, 2014 14:08:29 GMT -7
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Post by daustin on Sept 21, 2014 15:25:28 GMT -7
"Colin" asked: Interesting. So I think the issue here is that our definition of "Baseline" is confusing. If you are failing on the 6th rep of the 2nd set, with a resistance of body weight +10kg, then "Baseline" for that exercise is body weight + (~)5.5KG. Note that you are speaking in KG and we are speaking in pounds. (10 pounds = ~ 4.5KG). In the definition, we say Baseline is whatever causes you to fail on the 6th rep of the second set. That sounds like baseline = body weight + 10kg in your example. However, we intended for you to look at the figure, which says resistance for the 2nd set is "Baseline +10 lbs.", and do the math to "solve" for Baseline. So in your case, on the second set: Resistance = Body Weight + 10Kg, = Baseline + 10 lbs. 10lbs = 4.5 Kg, so Resistance = Body Weight + 10Kg, = Baseline + 4.5KG. Subtract 4.5KG from both sides and you get: Body Weight + 5.5KG = Baseline Hope that clears things up Can I try to clarify a bit, as I'm still a little confused. Is it accurate to say: Baseline = (amt of weight req'd to reach failure on 6th rep of 2nd set) - 10 lbs. This might be getting too esoteric, but does this method of determining baseline assume you're using the same weight for both sets? I.e., to determine baseline would I want to do two sets using the same weight on each? So if it took -10 lbs., used on each set, to fail on the 6th rep of the 2nd set, would my baseline for exercises then be -20 lbs.? Or is the baseline "calculus" already assuming that you're adding 10 lbs. to the 2nd set? Hope that makes sense -- I might just be confusing myself and over-engineering a more 'play it by ear' concept. |
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Post by MarkAnderson on Oct 9, 2014 13:09:02 GMT -7
You definitely have me confused.
1) It IS accurate to say
2) No. For example, let's say on the first set you subtracted 20 lb, then did 7 reps. On the 2nd set you subtracted 10 lb, then did 6 reps, barely reaching failure at the end of the 6th rep. In this case, Baseline = Body Weight - 20 lb.
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Post by John H. on Oct 31, 2014 10:19:32 GMT -7
How do you define baseline resistance for the novice hangboarder when there is only one set?
Thanks,
John
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Post by MarkAnderson on Nov 1, 2014 10:14:46 GMT -7
John,
For a given grip position, baseline resistance is whatever amount of resistance results in failure at the end of the last rep of the last set. For the beginner routine, that would mean whatever resistance results in failure at the end of the 6th rep of the first (only) set.
The trick is figuring out what that resistance is. To do that, you simply have to experiment. I recommend that you start out conservatively. Remove 40 pounds or so, and see how it feels. If it feels ridiculously easy after one rep, then increase the resistance by ten pounds or so (you may need to do this a couple times). When it starts to get a little hard, complete the entire set, and see how you feel at the end. If it's too hard or too easy, make a note in your training log and adjust accordingly for the next workout. It may take a couple workouts to get the resistance just right, but then things will progress more or less automatically from there.
Note you will need to go through this trial and error experience for each grip position. However, once you have an idea of what "too hard" and "too easy" feel like, you will get much better at adjusting the resistance during the workout.
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Post by John H. on Nov 2, 2014 11:34:51 GMT -7
Great. Thanks!
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Post by slimshaky on Nov 3, 2014 13:26:19 GMT -7
when i switched hangboards to the RPTC, the first thing i did was spend a workout figuring out my baseline weights for a bunch of grips. my workout routine uses 5 seconds on, 5 seconds off, 6 reps. so, for each of the grips i went through and made a very conservative guess of what i thought would be my baseline weight. then, i did a test: so, here is kind of an example grip 1 (let's call it the 3 finger open pockets) let's say my conservative guess was 10 lbs. i put 10 lbs on my harness, and start the test; hang for 5 seconds, rest for 5 seconds (and during this 5 secs quickly add a 2.5 lb weight) hang for 5 seconds, rest for 5 seconds, (and quickly add a 2.5 lb weight) repeat until i fail the 5 second hang. say i failed when i had 20 lbs on my harness. i arbitrarily decided to subtract 10 lbs and call that my baseline for my 'performance set'. (note, my workout is structured a little bit different than the standard workout, so assume that this would be your baseline for your hardest set, which would be the third set of the standard advanced RPTM workout) so, on my first 'real' workout, i started with the baseline weight for the grip and do my workout. if the set was way too easy, i made a note. for this grip i would increase my baseline weight. if i flunked the set, my baseline was too heavy, so i decreased my baseline weight. within a couple workouts i had a pretty good idea of what my baseline weights were. these are my 'original' baseline values and are etched in stone. then, each season my cycle starts with a 'cycle' baseline value, which i determine from the previous cycle, how strong i am feeling currently, etc. usually, my 'cycle' baseline value is about 2.5 lbs heavier than the 'cycle' baseline value from my previous season. so, you kind of have 2 baselines - the first one being where you started from at the very beginning of your training, and the second one being where you started at the beginning of the current cycle. this allows you to see not only your current improvement, but also your long term improvement. clear as mud? |
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Post by Carl0s on Nov 3, 2014 13:41:11 GMT -7
There are multiple baselines and it took me one full hangboard cycle to figure them all out.
Each one of the grips I train has it's own baseline.
I started subtracting weight, as the book recommends, and kept adding +5 lbs every workout until I reached failure on the last rep of the 3rd set of each hang.
On my last workout my baseline for all my grips is body weight + lbs, which is very exciting.
Keep accurate records and don't worry about "wasting" a few workouts while dialing all the base lines.
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Post by slimshaky on Nov 4, 2014 10:15:18 GMT -7
i think there may be some confusion about baseline weights. my interpretation is that it doesn't change from workout to workout, but rather it is your starting point during your first workout. so, for a cycle of 8 workouts and a given hold, it might look like:
workout weight (lbs)
1 10 - baseline
2 15 - ie baseline + 5
3 20 - ie baseline + 10
4 25 - ie baseline + 15
5 30 - ie baseline + 20
6 30 - ie baseline + 20
7 35 - ie baseline + 25
8 40 - ie baseline + 30 if we were successful on this set, our season improvement was 30 lbs. if not, our season improvement was 25 lbs. our baseline for this cycle was 10 lbs.
now, if this was our 3rd cycle, and we originally started at 0 lbs and went up to 30 lbs in our first season, our original baseline was 0 lbs. our improvement from the latest cycle compared to our original baseline is 40 lbs.
maybe mark or mike can give their definitions.
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Post by MarkAnderson on Nov 4, 2014 18:34:24 GMT -7
maybe mark or mike can give their definitions. I think its safe to say that we didn't think about the definition as much as you did I believe we were fairly consistent in describing "baseline" with respect to a single workout. So theoretically, your baseline would be different each training day (hopefully ever-increasing). The workout routines make the most sense if you think of it that way (in the sense that you can follow each routine explicitly for an indefinite time period, whereas with a static baseline you would need a different set of instructions for each training day, describing resistance for the 1st day, 1st set, as Baseline, and then 2nd day 1st set as Baseline +5, and so on). Here are a few excerpts from pages 72-73: "The initial period of rest allows the body to return to its baseline capability. If sufficient training stimulus has been applied, additional rest will permit the body to adapt, achieving an improved baseline capability slightly above the previous baseline. This process is known as super-compensation.
""Assuming adequate recovery, overloading the body will cause a slightly improved baseline capability, so training stress must be increased by a slight increment to overload the body during the next training event(s)."That said, I can see some real advantages to having a static baseline. For example, many people have asked how much the resistance should increase between workouts. It would have been much easier for us to explain that with a static baseline. Maybe the best bet would be to identify multiple "baselines". You could have a Season Baseline, for the your baseline at the start of the first workout. You could have a baseline for a given hangboard (like "RPTC Baseline", which is your baseline the first time you used the HB). Lifetime Baseline and so on.... |
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