Seeking input for an idea since many of my friends are asking about home walls. Unfortunately, a Moonboard does not fit in 8’ ceilings, Tension holds are astronomically expensive, and Kilter doesn’t have a price listed on their webpage.
Another common refrain I hear is that people would rather have an app with routes other people have set and benchmarked.
So here’s a rough shot idea. What do you think? Wall angle: 40 degrees with a 12” kicker. Should only need 3 sheets of plywood total. Grid: 6”, diagonal intermediates. Holds: TBD. Honestly, Atomik has the most affordable and many of the holds are symmetric. Maybe a mishmash of brands? App: Mark Goldberg of Moonboard fame has a free app called “Spray.” I don’t know if you can share walls on this, but it’s worth checking out for your home wall anyway.
Post by MarkAnderson on Mar 29, 2020 15:23:27 GMT -7
Do you really think there’s a lot of money in making/selling personal climbing walls? (That’s a sincere question). I confess I seriously underestimated the demand for hangboards. I find I’m not very good at predicting what people want and how much they will pay for it.
Post by jetjackson on Mar 29, 2020 15:59:37 GMT -7
Well, I just paid $2400 USD for the moonboard holds of which I'd say the production cost is maybe $250, and I am on a 4-6 week wait for the holds due to demand. I know of ~30 moonboards in Australia - 2/3s of which are private. Australia has a population of 25 million, if I just extrapolate that out and say that in climbing nations across the globe there is 1 Billion, then that's 1200 moonboards in existence. If they are just making $1000 per moonboard, then they have already made $1.2M USD in gross profit on those boards - for arguments sake. I think Moon has been doing it for about 6 or 7 years. Even on very rough numbers it doesn't look like too bad of a business.
Consumer preferences for hangboards are weird. I have no idea why the beastmaker has been so successful - maybe it's just the name? IMO it's one of the worse hangboards out there, every edge is a pocket and it forces specific shoulder width. Yet everyone wants a 'beastmaker'!?
Still, the amount of people that would like the moonboard social side, and not having to set their own problems, but live in an apartment and only have 8 feet to play with. You could sell the hold set, and also a freestanding board that came flat packed like an ikea bed. I think it would sell really well.
I think the making/selling of personal walls (as in all-included kits) is probably a niche market. There are various restrictions (i.e. stud locations, windows, sharp turns in hallways, etc.) that make a one-size-fits-all kit pretty hard.
However, for a systems board hold set, I think there's a huge demand for that. I can't believe the price of systems holds right now. I was fortunate enough to get the Original, Set A, and Set B Moon holds before the popularity took off. After shipping and tariffs, I paid under $800 for mine.
Mark, you have a hookup with Trango/e-Grips, right? :-P Maybe whisper some sweet nothings into their ears. We could call it the Rock Prodigy Pain Cave. Rock Prodigy Grand Stand? Rock Prodigy Protégé?
Having climbed on a Moonboard and Tension board, I have some ideas for a 40 degree wall that is accessible to V0 through V14 climbers.
Post by MarkAnderson on Mar 29, 2020 17:30:05 GMT -7
Does anyone else think 40 degrees is too steep? If I were to do my own system, the first thing I would change is the angle. If nothing else, it would allow smaller (and therefore less expensive) holds.
40 lets you fit 3 plywood panels (no kicker, or up to a 3-4" kicker) in an 8' space. I agree with the sentiment, though, 30 degrees would be more accessible. But it comes at the expense of linear climbing length.
Post by MarkAnderson on Mar 29, 2020 18:08:07 GMT -7
Holy shit, I just looked at the Moon Board shop. You guys aren’t exaggerating.
Well, I’ve asked Trango we’ll see what they say. Maybe save your money till I get an answer, haha. What I would love to do is pick from existing e-Grips shapes and just add the compass imprint for orientation. E-Grips has the best shapes anyway, plus it would save us the trouble of creating a bunch of shapes from scratch.
What I would love to do is pick from existing e-Grips shapes and just add the compass imprint for orientation. E-Grips has the best shapes anyway, plus it would save us the trouble of creating a bunch of shapes from scratch.
I wish I could experience these best shapes, but their shipping prices always sent me running elsewhere! A set of comfy crimps was going to be $25 for shipping.
Ran the math: 10' at 40 degrees with 4" kicker fits nearly exactly 8'.
EDIT: The "pure" line seems to have shapes that would fit the style well with holds that aren't too gigantic.
Last Edit: Mar 29, 2020 18:47:14 GMT -7 by Charlie S
Post by jetjackson on Mar 29, 2020 19:21:19 GMT -7
Hang on, you need to make the holds yourselves to make the profit!?
Clearly engineers! Lucky you have a salesperson on the forum
With the Moonboard, you're not buying the holds. You're buying the myriad of problems that have been set by some of the best climbers in the world. You're buying the social aspect of the app. Not to mention the app itself and just being able to flick through hundreds of problems. Honestly, it's so motivating for me to work problems with other people - Charlie and I have exchanged problems and I watch his instagram videos.
Building that up would take time, that's for sure.