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Post by Andy C on Jul 29, 2014 6:29:29 GMT -7
Hi, I'm trying to find out which page specific aerobic exercises are laid out in the book. I'v been through the book a bunch of times and haven't been able to find them.
thanks,
andy
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Post by MarkAnderson on Jul 29, 2014 9:48:08 GMT -7
Andy,
I assume when you say "aerobic exercises", you mean general conditioning activities like running? If so, we do not describe such activities because we do not recommend them as a training activity for rock climbing. We explain our reasoning for this in several areas:
p107 :"Skinny Legs" sidebar
p152: "All Endurance is Local" sidebar
p214 "Cardio Conundrum"
However, we do recommend (and describe on p 96) "ARC" training, which is somewhat aerobic but also sport-specific to rock climbing. If you're looking for aerobic exercise that will improve your rock climbing, ARCing is the way to go.
Good luck,
Mark
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Post by Andy on Aug 13, 2014 14:19:21 GMT -7
Hi, Mark. Thanks for the reply, and the great book!
I'm looking at the trad climbing seasonal training plan, pg. 262, where aerobic exercise is a workout that's required. ARCing is listed as another activity. Should I ARC at both times, or are their other climbing specific aerobics?
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Post by gargano on Aug 21, 2014 16:58:04 GMT -7
Follow-up question regarding aerobic exercise.
The Seasonal Training Plans (p. 186 & 187) list an Optional Aerobic Exercise (OAE) session throughout the season. Above, Mark mentioned that ARC training was really the only recommended aerobic training.
Just curious what OAE would be recommended outside of ARC, since OAE is listed as an option for the day after many of the ARC sessions.
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Post by MarkAnderson on Aug 22, 2014 12:02:18 GMT -7
OAE could be whatever aerobic exercise you're too stubborn to stop doing. For some people that's running, cycling, speed skating, etc.
The ideal scenario would be to skip the OAE, unless you're so overweight that diet alone is not enough to get in shape.
For the trad plan, any AE should be focused toward your goals, so it will likely be something like hiking up a steep his with a heavy pack (or uphill running as an approximation of that).
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Post by Andy on Aug 24, 2014 13:19:32 GMT -7
Thanks!
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Post by callen2 on Jul 24, 2015 6:20:17 GMT -7
Just started my first round...I was wondering the thoughts on swimming? I am currently running...and swimming once a week for my OAE.
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Post by joev9 on Jul 24, 2015 7:18:01 GMT -7
OAE could be whatever aerobic exercise you're too stubborn to stop doing. For some people that's running, cycling, Sheepishly raises hand...
Very stubborn here, as I need my running. Funny thing is that my focused training for climbing and cutting some weight (mostly this) has really helped my running. I just ran a couple races that ended up being near my best (when entered into the age-grading tables) when I was running 50 to 60 miles per week (I'm down to 30ish lately).
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Post by MarkAnderson on Jul 24, 2015 8:02:54 GMT -7
I think my thoughts on running are pretty well documented.
My thoughts on swimming: it's worse than running  Seriously though, you could argue it's "not as bad" since it doesn't target the legs, which I would theorize have more potential to accumulate useless-for-rock-climbing mass. But there are other downsides to swimming that are unique from other types of aerobic exercise.
First, it happens in the water. Water is wet, and as we all know, wetness is the essence of beauty (and the essence of beauty is creamy soft skin). That would be my biggest objection to it. This is off topic, but I'm beginning to think skin strength/toughness is a cumulative thing that improves over many years. Regular prolonged wetness would likely impede such improvement. Skin is a limiting factor for many climbers, YMMV.
Second, in my experience*, swimming usually involves some forearm/hand/finger exercise. I don't think the intensity or duration of that exercise is in any way beneficial to climbing, but it could be detrimental in that it may interfere with recovery (in the same way that doing stone masonry on a rest day would interfere) and it may interfere with finger/forearm power training in the same way excessive ARCing does. When I was swimming I felt like it was interfering with recovery, especially in the case of a creaky ring finger.
(*I have nowhere near as much experience swimming as I do running and cycling, but I did spend about a year lap-swimming for 30-60 minutes/day, about 3 days/week. This was in 2007, right around when I did my first 5.14. I have another good climber friend who has experimented with swimming and he seconded my thoughts).
Third, I worry about the impact to the back and shoulder muscles. From a joint health perspective it's probably helpful, but I worry that a) you might increase the mass of such muscles in a way that doesn't benefit climbing, and/or b) that the intensity/duration would be counter-productive to your climbing-specific training and goals (for example, let's say you're trying to train your lats to produce explosive power for big dynos or static strength for hard lock-offs, then swimming for 45 minutes is almost certainly interfering with that, just like excessive ARCing during the Power Phase would interfere with your campus training).
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Post by callen2 on Jul 24, 2015 18:16:50 GMT -7
Thank you very much! So back to the drawing board...
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Post by patterner on Aug 24, 2015 11:17:42 GMT -7
Thoughts about rowing as an OAE? Seems like it would be a *little* closer to the right ROM for climbing.
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Post by rob on Aug 24, 2015 13:26:25 GMT -7
True rowing is more specific to climbing movement, but that's an issue in itself in my opinion. You train your pull muscles to be super strong by doing pull exercises and climbing, then teach it to endure prolonged rowing motions... I'd be too worried it would restrict gains in strength, especially if done around the same time as strengthening those muscles.
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Post by MarkAnderson on Aug 24, 2015 13:27:03 GMT -7
Thoughts about rowing as an OAE? Seems like it would be a *little* closer to the right ROM for climbing. I've never tried it, but I gotta think grasping an oar for tens-of-minutes without a break would interfere with forearm/hand recovery. You can always try it and see how it goes. |
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Post by rob on Aug 24, 2015 13:27:21 GMT -7
I think this may have come up somewhere else and someone said the same thing... But I don't remember the thread.
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Post by patterner on Aug 25, 2015 11:31:23 GMT -7
Thanks for the replies all.
Question though, wouldn't you have tapered all the OAE type exercises by the time you're doing the Strength or Power phases? Just trying to come up with an OAE (since I need it) that combines somewhat less leg involvement (my quads are monstrous...lots of BB squatting in the past) and would include some of the same ROM and help (slightly) with the later strengthening and endurance work for those pull muscles.
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Seriously though, you could argue it's "not as bad" since it doesn't target the legs, which I would theorize have more potential to accumulate useless-for-rock-climbing mass. But there are other downsides to swimming that are unique from other types of aerobic exercise. 