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Post by ehowell on Jul 10, 2016 15:39:30 GMT -7
This also includes high foot rockover moves. I'm terribly inflexible, and to large extent (as I'm told) it may just be structural and I'm stuck with it. I've tried tons of stretching, years of yoga, and my hamstrings and legs in general have not improved much in mobility. If anything, my hamstrings tend to get tighter when I stretch them. So...other than stretching, and more along the lines of strengthening, what have people seen to be an area of improvement? This is becoming a glaring weakness for me, especially when bouldering.
As I've focused more on core strengthening, I think I've seen some improvements. I also did some deadlifting for a while with noticeable gains, but I find it hard to fit in heavy deadlifting into my strength training. Light squats, hip flexors? What do you guys find beneficial to get your feet high and your weight over that foot?
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Post by MarkAnderson on Jul 10, 2016 21:16:48 GMT -7
Do you ever do hanging leg raises (or similar)? Something like that will strengthen hip flexors which might be helpful. I've never done hanging toe touches myself, but I could?d see them being helpful too.
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Post by ehowell on Jul 11, 2016 6:09:50 GMT -7
I do hanging leg raises, but have not considered the toe touches. I'm thinking that progressively higher one footed squats would be beneficial, and something I could do on a rest day.
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ericg
New Member
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Post by ericg on Jul 11, 2016 6:57:07 GMT -7
Have you tried the reverse butterfly stretch? For me hamstring flexibility has very little to do with your ability to high step. I find the reverse butterfly stretch to be the best stretch for hip flexibility with regards to rock climbing. I used to have the same problem as you, never been able to touch my toes...did yoga for awhile found it to be a complete waste of time with regards to improving my rockclimbing, then I discovered that stretch and know I can high step onto all the holds that the short yoga girls can and often ones they can't.
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Post by ehowell on Jul 11, 2016 9:02:45 GMT -7
Have you tried the reverse butterfly stretch? Yes, I used to do these a lot in yoga with no discernible change in mobility. I haven't tried them in a while for this reason, but I could give it another go. Considering I went to that class 2x/week and that this was a fairly regular stretch, I'm not sure I'm going to get much additional mobility from stretching.
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Post by daustin on Jul 11, 2016 9:46:26 GMT -7
I'm no expert but I do recall hearing/reading that problems of (lack of) strength can often be misconstrued as problems of flexibility.
It sounds like you already found a solution if you had noticeable gains with deadlifts -- what makes it hard to fit them into your strength training schedule? If this lack of mobility is becoming such a glaring weakness, is there anything you can deprioritize in your current strength training so that you have more time for deadlifts?
I think light squats are also a great idea. I find that even doing squats with no extra weight is helpful for my hip mobility. I suppose depending on how light the squats are, they might even be less about strengthening and more about dynamic stretching/flexibility, but in any event, they've been quite helpful for me. And one of the big advantages is that you don't need any equipment and they don't take very much time at all -- i.e., you don't really have to make any tradeoffs to start incorporating light squats, so you might as well try!
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Post by ehowell on Jul 11, 2016 10:21:52 GMT -7
I'm no expert but I do recall hearing/reading that problems of (lack of) strength can often be misconstrued as problems of flexibility. It sounds like you already found a solution if you had noticeable gains with deadlifts -- what makes it hard to fit them into your strength training schedule? If this lack of mobility is becoming such a glaring weakness, is there anything you can deprioritize in your current strength training so that you have more time for deadlifts? I think light squats are also a great idea. I find that even doing squats with no extra weight is helpful for my hip mobility. I suppose depending on how light the squats are, they might even be less about strengthening and more about dynamic stretching/flexibility, but in any event, they've been quite helpful for me. And one of the big advantages is that you don't need any equipment and they don't take very much time at all -- i.e., you don't really have to make any tradeoffs to start incorporating light squats, so you might as well try! I'm also no expert, but I've read many times that people spend years stretching certain muscles with limited results, only to strengthen and see quick improvements in ROM. Hence this plan of attack. So yes, I'm in complete agreement. As for deadlifts, I do all my hangboard and supplemental exercises at home, so I was doing deadlifts during my first rest day at the gym. I suspect, but I'm not sure, that this fairly intense workout was really hurting my subsequent HB sessions, and if nothing else is an additional night at the gym to justify to my wife! I've been incorporating some barbell-only squats as a dynamic ROM activity during my warm-ups at the gym, for the exact reasons as you've described. Since I started climbing, I haven't really dabbled much with proper Olympic squats, but I do think that some bodyweight one-legged squats (or variations) could be good on a rest day and not eat into other training activities (or time).
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Post by jcm on Feb 8, 2017 20:25:03 GMT -7
ehowell:
I'm interested in working on the same thing. Any progress or success since then?
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Post by ehowell on Feb 9, 2017 8:08:50 GMT -7
ehowell: I'm interested in working on the same thing. Any progress or success since then? Hey JCM, Well, I have been seeing gains, but slowly. Until now, I've basically just tried everything I can, and I've honestly not been consistent with my methods. Looking objectively, deadlifting has probably still been the biggest bang for my buck, but what you need and what I need my be completely different. It's actually funny that you brought this up, as I finally have taken a bigger leap on fixing my overall mobility problem once and for all (hopefully). I was deadlifting a few weeks ago and strained my back (again), despite using what I thought was perfect form. I've been considering having a Functional Movement Assessment done for over a year, and after this injury, I decided it was time to get to the root of the problem. If you're in a metro area, there are surely practitioners performing these. Check out the website: functionalmovement.com/Basically I had the full SFMA and it was really informative regarding movement dysfunctions that are limiting my climbing performance and setting myself up for injury. Check out how horribly immobile I am! SFMA.pptx (79.07 KB) I explained to the practitioner both my previous injuries and some of my non-painful performance issues (hand-foot matches, getting hips close the wall, high heel hooks, etc), and he seems very confident that the prescribed corrective exercises will fix it all. I've been doing these exercises daily for about two weeks, and I'm definitely seeing improvement first in trunk mobility. The cool thing about some of these stretches (Youtube Brettzel and Brettzel 2.0) is that they stretch many muscles and are layered -- by that I mean as one muscle groups starts to see increased mobility, a new muscle group is targeted. For instance, I first had to get mobility in my lower and mid back before my adductors were even part of the equation. Basically, I've been hurting myself because I don't have the mobility to properly position myself for various excercises (deadlifting). So, the jury is still out on whether I will finally break down this barrier, but so far so good. Believe me, I've tried everything! I'm happy to share the list of corrective exercises, but I'm sure these vary person to person depending on your mobility dysfunctions.
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Post by jcm on Feb 9, 2017 12:17:05 GMT -7
ehowell: I'm interested in working on the same thing. Any progress or success since then? Basically, I've been hurting myself because I don't have the mobility to properly position myself for various excercises (deadlifting). So, the jury is still out on whether I will finally break down this barrier, but so far so good. Believe me, I've tried everything! I'm happy to share the list of corrective exercises, but I'm sure these vary person to person depending on your mobility dysfunctions.
This is something that I'd be concerned with as well with starting a lifting program; mobility issues impairing ability to safely perform lifts.
If you were willing to share that list of exercises, I'd be very interested to hear. I'm sure it would require some individual adjustment, but it could be a good starting point for programing some mobility work.
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Post by ehowell on Feb 10, 2017 7:36:24 GMT -7
Yeah, sure.
So the the program is built on the foundation that mobility is addressed first, then stability, and finally dynamic exercises are introduced to complete the picture from a neuromuscular standpoint. Because my mobility is such shit, I'm definitely starting on the bottom of the ladder. Basically you might be good on these, but it's all I have for now. And again, these are specific to me and may not at all be relevant for others.
All can probably be found on Youtube:
Mobility: 1. Couch stretch for quads and hip flexors 2. Closed chain dorsiflexion (if you have limited ankle mobility). Basically a dynamic calf stretch -- important to leave the heel grounded. It won't feel like it's doing anything, but it does work over time. 3. Brettzel 2.0 4. Mid Back Rotation with Shoulder Reaching 5. Brettzel
Stability: 1. Leg Raise with core engagement. 2. Half Kneeling Windmill Hand to Front Foot 3. TGU Arm Bar
Once I master these I'm on to more dynamic movements, but I don't know what those are yet. I'm doing all of these at least daily (supposed to be 2x/day, but who has time for that??).
Some of these won't be directly specific to hand-foot matches, but there's probably something more than just tight hamstrings or adductors. It's usually the first prescribed stretch for the issue, but if you have trunk or hip mobility problems the hamstrings may not be the root of the problem. It's fascinating stuff. I hope this helps.
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erk
Junior Member
Posts: 83
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Post by erk on Feb 11, 2017 17:51:53 GMT -7
How tall are you?
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Post by ehowell on Feb 11, 2017 18:32:00 GMT -7
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erk
Junior Member
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Post by erk on Feb 20, 2017 23:51:56 GMT -7
Gotcha, I'm 6'0" (+0), don't have great mobility, and usually shun high stepping. Perhaps this puts us in a similar category so I'll give you my mindset on the issue. Most of my frustrations with high stepping have come working problems in the gym. This caused me a lot of grief for a while. I would make it a goal at the start of each cycle to do more stretching, core, etc... but I could never stay committed... I think this stemmed from the fact that, for the most part*, it really wasn't effecting my outdoor climbing (i.e. I never had to get my foot on something that at my chest) So I guess it depends on what your projects are like? * I did have a project that had a crux high-step. I did enough stretching at home (and while warming up at the crag) until it wasn't an issue. Obviously having an increased ROM can be very beneficial and I think it's awesome you are putting in the work. But unless it's causing a serious problem on a project, I wouldn't stress too much
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Post by ehowell on Feb 21, 2017 6:58:01 GMT -7
Erk,
Yes, you're right in thinking that I mostly encounter this issue in the gym, but I wouldn't really care if it was only in the gym. I've had more than a handful of projects where my mobility was a glaring weakness. I'd often be able to do the crux, but would be completely shut down by some non-crux move that others cruised through.
Although something as obvious as a hand-foot match really screams "I'M NOT FLEXIBLE!", if you routinely have trouble getting your hips into the wall or generating force through your posterior chain, you may unknowingly be putting a lot more of the demand in your arms, thereby limiting your performance. That's become more and more obvious to me over the last couple of years, especially on boulders where moves are at my limit and body positioning is everything. Front range rope climbing is also quite bouldery, so it becomes a real issue on my goals at times.
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