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Post by Lundy on Aug 18, 2015 19:02:28 GMT -7
A thread earlier today got me wondering about how people manage their weight cutting. I tend not to try to start losing weight for performance until after the strength phase, but this is mostly because I'm lazy and don't want to restrict calories for that long. This probably means I don't get as light as I could by the time the performance phase rolls around, though. So I'm just curious what others do: (1) Do folks let their weight go up and down depending on where they are in their cycle, or do they try to stay relatively trim all the time? (2) If you let your weight go back up, how much weight do you allow yourself to add so you know you can get back down to fighting weight for your performance phase? And (3) how long do you give yourself to cut and get back to your sending weight?
I know I'm terrible at this, so I'll offer myself up as probably how not to do it. I generally aim to get to about 145 or so for sending, but I allow myself to get up to usually 160-163 during the strength phase. I then begin trimming back down as soon as I get off the hangboard, and usually give myself about 6-7 weeks to lose the 15 pounds. I feel like that's probably extreme, though. But maybe not? Thanks for your thoughts!
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Post by MarkAnderson on Aug 18, 2015 19:47:11 GMT -7
Surely a nutritionist would call that extreme. I would call it conservative Mike stays at just about the same weight all the time. Most people I know (myself included) fluctuate. I can go up as much as 15 pounds between seasons, depending a lot on the amount of time that passes between periods of dieting. I've been known to drop that in as little as 3 weeks, but over the last year I've found I much prefer to start a bit earlier and drop at a slower rate. To do the drastic weight loss I have to basically starve myself (~800 calories per day--literally nothing but salad and tuna for days on end--ugh), and then use regular re-feeds to kickstart my frozen metabolism. It's psychologically agonizing, and surely unhealthy. On the other hand, with the slow and steady approach I can pretty much eat whatever I normally would (including cookies, etc), but in smaller quantities. I can lose on the order of 2-3 lb/week with this approach. This works much better if you don't have a "drop dead" date to reach your goal weight, because it can be hard to predict your rate of weight loss, so it may end up taking a week or two longer than anticipated. Whenever I have a drop dead date, I seem to end up starving myself at some point to meet my schedule, despite the best intentions.
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Post by Chris W on Aug 19, 2015 5:04:08 GMT -7
I'm still experimenting with this and haven't figured out how best to do it for myself just yet.
I try to stay fairly trim all the time with a goal to keep my weight under 165 but close to 160. I do this by eating good, healthy food most of the time.
I have an enormous sweet tooth which can pack on the pounds in no time. Towards the end of my strength phase, I try to watch what I eat a bit closer. I don't restrict calories much, but I try to avoid foods with little nutritional value (like desserts, cookies, cake, large volumes of pizza, etc.) Once I hit the Power phase I focus on not overeating carbs (one bowl of cereal, not two, small amount of pasta not plate full). By the PE phase, I'm eating well and not overeating, so I start to restrict some carbohydrates (half bowl of cereal, no corn chips with taco, no beans with taco but extra veggies, etc.)
I can drop about a pound per week this way without feeling tired or losing much but some body fat. I try to hit 155 by the performance phase (down from 160-165). I don't seem to do well if I restrict carbs as much as Mark and Mike seem to. I weigh myself once a week after breakfast (the same breakfast each time, I'm boring but I like it that way).
I'd be interested to try to cut down to 150. I'd have to be pretty disciplined to do that I think. I'm in the middle of my strength phase now and I haven't decided yet what to shoot for. I've only tried to cut weight now about 2-3 times. After my season is over, I can bump back up to 160 after a half dozen Chik-Filet chocolate chip cookies and a large pizza from our local pizza parlor. Life is grand!
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Post by jessebruni on Aug 19, 2015 8:53:33 GMT -7
On the other hand, with the slow and steady approach I can pretty much eat whatever I normally would (including cookies, etc), but in smaller quantities. I can lose on the order of 2-3 lb/week with this approach. Mark your "Slow and Steady" approach still seems incredibly fast. I tend to not fluctuate much and stay within 7-8 lbs of goal weight all the time, but even when I'm essentially starving myself dropping 1 lb/week is the best I can achieve. I have months of data showing a diet of primarily healthy carbs (oats, rice), protein (chicken breast, tuna, salmon), and fats (avocado, olive oil, whatever's in the meat), and 1700 NET calories/day only producing .5lb/week of weight loss. Granted I'm pretty light for my height, 5'9" and tend to not go above 140 with goal weight being in the low 130's so maybe I just don't have much to lose? Or maybe your metabolism is just crazy fast!
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Post by MarkAnderson on Aug 19, 2015 10:50:22 GMT -7
On the other hand, with the slow and steady approach I can pretty much eat whatever I normally would (including cookies, etc), but in smaller quantities. I can lose on the order of 2-3 lb/week with this approach. Granted I'm pretty light for my height, 5'9" and tend to not go above 140 with goal weight being in the low 130's so maybe I just don't have much to lose? Or maybe your metabolism is just crazy fast! You're way lighter than me, and 2" taller, so I would guess you are already quite lean. (I'm 5'7", my goal weight is usually around 140-142 (depending on psych level/presumed difficulty of projects) though I've been as low as 138 in recent years. In the off-season I can get up to 155.)
Anyway, it's way easier to lose the first 5 lb than the last 5 (obviously). So you may be in a cycle of perpetually trying to lose the "last 5", and that is why it seems so hard. Speed dieting is a really tricky thing IME. It's really easy to eat too little, stall your metabolism, and sabotage your weight loss. Also your body is pretty smart and picks up on your tricks after a few cycles of Yo-yo-ing, leading your metabolism to shut down at the first sign of starvation. That said, 1700 cal/day doesn't seem like too little to me, but your body may respond differently.
Here is some data from my last season, in which I never really dieted (by my standards)--I just ate healthy and exercised portion control:
147.7 7 Apr (last HB workout) 146.4 10 Apr (1st Power workout) 144.8 13 Apr 143.0 15 Apr (Note, losing this much this quick without really dieting is not normal for me) 144.4 18 Apr 142.2 19 Apr (my goal weight was 142, so I'm guessing I lost some steam around this point) 145.4 20 Apr 142.8 21 Apr 145.6 23 Apr 143.6 24 Apr 143.0 26 Apr 143.6 27 Apr 143.6 28 Apr 141.6 29 Apr 140.8 30 Apr 141.6 1 May 140.4 2 May ...after this my weight basically fluctuated between 140 and 142 for the next 2 weeks. My calendar has a note on 1 May that says:
"Diet: Been eating something along the lines of this every day: 1 NV Protein GB for breakfast Small Bangkok Curry w/ grilled chicken and crushed red pepper for lunch large fuji apple when I get home, and any leftover cookies (0-4) Dinner, which could be: -One fajita w/ low carb tortilla -1/6 Furtata -Chicken breast w/ veggies side like broccoli -Lettuce wraps (usually one big and one small) -small blue striped bowl of annie's mac with chicken and broccoli As many Worthers as it takes 1-2 half-bowls (blue china bowls) of salsa and as many Tostitos blue corn chips as needed 4-8 homede Ch Chip cookies 0-1 mandarin oranges"
So I wasn't exactly starving.
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Post by Lundy on Aug 19, 2015 11:36:58 GMT -7
Jesse, if you were to drop 2-3 lbs/week you'd get 2D really quickly. I'm also 5'9" and carry 160 normally, down to 145 to climb. I almost certainly could get thinner, as I'm not that stocky, but just don't really have the discipline these days, frankly. Mark, it's nice to see someone else who has a cookie problem. Without cookies I could probably get to about 120.
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Post by jessebruni on Aug 19, 2015 11:46:25 GMT -7
Well, calipers are telling me that I'm at around 6% BF right now, so yeah, I realize that at this level I'm not going to drop weight quickly (I don't really even want to drop weight at all at 6% BF to be honest). I'm just amazed that someone like Mark who must be getting down to single digit BF as well when he hits goal weight is able to get down there at a rate of 2-3 lbs/week. My experience was that 15%-10% was a 1 lb/week rate, and everything under 10% was .5-.3lbs/week.
Oh, and my low weight comes from lack of leg muscles. Chickens sit around cracking jokes about how skinny my legs are.
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Post by joshvillen on Aug 19, 2015 12:38:21 GMT -7
Dont let those two fatty's get you down jesse, I am 5'8 125 lb and still above 10% bf I started feeling sickly around 117 lb
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Post by MarkAnderson on Aug 19, 2015 13:15:30 GMT -7
My experience was that 15%-10% was a 1 lb/week rate, and everything under 10% was .5-.3lbs/week. That seems totally unsustainable to me. That is, I could never stay on the diet long enough to achieve any meaningful weight loss at that rate!
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Post by MarkAnderson on Aug 19, 2015 13:16:29 GMT -7
Dont let those two fatty's get you down jesse, I am 5'8 125 lb and still above 10% bf I started feeling sickly around 117 lb I'm not fat, I'm big boned
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Post by Lundy on Aug 19, 2015 13:17:20 GMT -7
HAHAHA... This is unquestionably the only time I've ever been described as a fatty in my life! But fair enough.
And yeah -- 6-7 weeks of restricted diet is all this old man's willpower can handle.
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Post by jessebruni on Aug 19, 2015 13:59:09 GMT -7
My experience was that 15%-10% was a 1 lb/week rate, and everything under 10% was .5-.3lbs/week. That seems totally unsustainable to me. That is, I could never stay on the diet long enough to achieve any meaningful weight loss at that rate! Consider yourself lucky I suppose. As long as I keep track of what I'm eating I can generally stay slightly under or right around 10% without dieting, and can get down to 7% in 5-6 weeks at this rate. I've actually lost 5lbs in the last 6 weeks which is extremely fast for me, but considering that I lost 2.5 lbs in a single week from chicken pox (that weight still hasn't come back) the rate seems higher than it really was.
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Post by rob on Aug 19, 2015 15:25:27 GMT -7
I hate all you shorties... I'm 6,4 and a steady 180/5 lb! Even though I'm not super heavy for my weight, I'm pretty stocky (from my regrettable body building phase during my teens) and I can't seem to shift a lot of leg weight, despite basically avoiding doing any sort of walking/ running/ any other activity involving my legs for a while.
I've never really tried to lose weight for a peak yet (primarily because scheduling a peak has proved difficult with a baby) but I typically eat well all year round, lots of greens and protein, 95% whole foods with the occassional cheat meal (or day). Anyway, I'm always pretty lean and I don't know how I would lose weight without big muscle/ strength loses to peak?
I'm the same as Jesse in terms of body fat %. A couple of months back some of my students asked me to participate in a sports science experiment where they measured my body fat %, I was at 5% despite not eating particularly well for me in the previous week (I'm sure you'll hate me for this!). If I was to "diet" wouldnt my performance suffer? Jesse, how do you feel after dieting?
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Post by jessebruni on Aug 19, 2015 15:41:59 GMT -7
Honestly I usually feel pretty damn strong. I don't have as much energy and can't climb for long, but I can definitely do harder moves. I've never been as low as 5%. I personally wouldn't bother trying to diet if you're already at 5% BF. I'd just work with what you've got. At that height you've got a lot of advantages and 180 is definitely not a bad weight for being so tall.
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Post by rob on Aug 19, 2015 15:56:55 GMT -7
Honestly I usually feel pretty damn strong. I don't have as much energy and can't climb for long, but I can definitely do harder moves. I've never been as low as 5%. I personally wouldn't bother trying to diet if you're already at 5% BF. I'd just work with what you've got. At that height you've got a lot of advantages and 180 is definitely not a bad weight for being so tall. That's good to know. Okay, I just think of myself as being huge considering everyone I hear on here and UK bouldering seems to be around 140-50. One guy on UB Bouldering even reckons he's 6,5 and 140! But yeah the height is often helpful... I only notice when my girlfriend tries to climb something I have and is fully stretched out and still about 2 feet away from a hold I reached easily!
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