|
|
Post by jessebruni on Feb 20, 2015 10:08:46 GMT -7
Hey guys I have a few questions I was hoping someone had some insight into. Sunday will be my last workout of my second hangboard cycle (my first with the RPTC though). Since this is my first cycle using the RPTC I'm not really able to compare my grips to the previous season to see if I have improved as previously I didn't have a hangboard and was just hanging off the campus board rungs in the gym. Also I was using a few different grips. It's all very unscientific I know. This season I progressed very well through some grips, marginally through others, and a little too well through some. It's the grips I progressed too well through that I'm concerned with. As I have the RPTC right now please use this post as reference to the holds I'm talking about. My grips have gone in the following order this season, grips 2-6 are 3 sets each: 1) LVDER Open Hand (Warmup, 2 sets only)
2) Wide Pinch 3) MRP in 3F slot 4) IM in (IM Deep) 5) Half Crimp on SVDER (Pinky on rightmost PIB, largest portion of SVDER) 6) Sloper I mentioned in a previous post that I was having issues with endurance for the Half Crimp grip, but I lowered the weight a lot and I feel like I have plenty of room for improvement now. All the rest of the grips went relatively well. My biggest issue however is with grip #3, it's too easy. I chose this grip because I feel like my pinky in particular is weak and doesn't contribute much, part of that is because it's short (it only reaches the last knuckle of my 3rd finger) but either way I felt I should train it. I chose the 3F slot because it was the only hold on the board where I felt I could comfortably use my pinky in a 3F configuration. The problem is that I've moved up by 5 pounds for each workout with this grip and still haven't reached failure, in fact, I've moved up to the point where I have no more weight plates to add. Lastnight I did my 9th workout and for my 3rd set was able to hang +65 pounds on that grip. All I have left is a 2.5 pound weight to add for my 10th workout. I'm fine doing that for my 10th workout but what about my next cycle? The way I see it I have 4 options: 1) Buy more weight plates, keep increasing the weight for next cycle 2) Reduce hold size (this is a problem because there are no other 3F configurations that work for MRP on this board without mounting inside out and an adjustable mount isn't an option for me at the moment) 3) Stick to the 3F slot but use RP instead of MRP for future cycles. 4) Eliminate this grip entirely (doesn't solve the problem of increasing my pinky strength) 2 & 4 don't really seem to be viable options, so I'm really just considering whether I should do option 1 or option 3. I'm thinking option 3, just because the amount of weight I'm hanging off the harness is getting ridiculous and seriously messing with my skin. The problem is that since the hold isn't getting any smaller I'm concerned that I'll run into the same issue next cycle with RP instead of MRP, or maybe two cycles from now. So any advice on this problem would be appreciated. In addition to that grip the IM grip also went very, very well. I have been able to increase weight every set and I'm up to +35 for my 3rd set without much sign of slowing down. I know I'll have enough weight to get one more cycle out of this grip before I have to downsize holds, maybe even two cycles, but that will probably be it. My thinking though is that maybe I should just downsize now? I figure if I downsize now to IM (shallow) I can take off a lot of weight and will be able to add weight for several seasons before I start coming close to the limit on that hold. This should allow me to see continual improvement in this grip. Otherwise I will end up downsizing two seasons from now and I'll be starting from scratch again on that grip anyway in terms of data. Wouldn't it be better to start from scratch next cycle instead of two cycles from now? Thoughts? Thanks in advance for the input guys, and sorry this is so long. |
|
|
|
Post by jessebruni on Feb 20, 2015 10:24:57 GMT -7
Oh, one more thing to add is that on all of my grips except the Wide Pinch I'm at + weight by the 3rd set, this makes me wonder if I shouldn't perhaps downsize basically all of the grips?
|
|
|
|
Post by MarkAnderson on Feb 20, 2015 11:11:27 GMT -7
Jesse,
Have you tried using the SVDER for your MRP grip? I don't have an RPTC in front of me, but looking at the specs it appears the 3 finger slot is 1.5" deep, while the inside of the SVDER is .875" deep. There may be a slight interference issue with your index finger, but you should be able to fold it around the inner edge of each half. Another option would be to use the IM pockets.
I think using RP would be an ok compromise too.
Regarding your last two questions, don't fixate on weight. your body weight is arbitrary as far as your goal routes are concerned. Focus on hold size/type and how that relates to your goal routes.
|
|
|
|
Post by jessebruni on Feb 20, 2015 13:22:43 GMT -7
I haven't tried the SVDER but that seems like it would make sense. I have tried the IM pockets and it's a bit harder to use but not exactly the most comfortable position for my index finger. I suppose either of those options will need to suffice though.
As far as goal routes go, I really only have one and it's for the end of this year as it's quite a lot harder than anything I've done. My local crag doesn't have many routes above 13a, and the ones that exist are often wet year round or chossy/overgrown due to lack of repeats. Because of this my focus has been more on long term improvement in general, working on weaker grips, and less on tailoring my grips to a specific route. I know I could always pick a goal route at a destination area like the Red or something, but then I wouldn't really have an idea of what the holds are like.
I've picked my current holds with respect to my end of the year goal route to some degree, but mostly they were picked as I wanted to work on weaknesses.
|
|
|
|
Post by slimshaky on Feb 20, 2015 13:38:23 GMT -7
these are all pretty good problems to have  if you are hanging this much weigh on the MRP, i would go down to just the RP. i have the same short pinky syndrome, so i use the deep slot for this combo. also, using the deep slot keeps your R and M fingers out of the way. for the IM grip - do you have any problems with your skin taking a beating? in the past, when i use deeper pockets and heavier weight i usually get my 2nd pads chewed up. when i go down to a 1 pad hold i don't have this problem. all in all, sounds like things are going pretty well. |
|
|
|
Post by jessebruni on Feb 20, 2015 13:46:41 GMT -7
Slim, my 2nd pad skin definitely gets messed up during the IM hang, and I have noticed the same thing, that if I align my fingers such that I'm only using the first pad then my skin feels pretty good. The problem with this of course is that I'm not making use of the full depth of the deep IM pocket so I may as well not even bother using it. I usually find that even though my second pad skin hurts pretty terribly during the first set of the IM hang, sets 2 and 3 the pain is manageable. I think it just takes a set to get used to the idea of skin shearing off, and of course I'm still not at a super high weight with that grip.
I only wish things were going so well with the pinch grip...
|
|
|
|
Post by jonfrisby on Feb 20, 2015 15:31:47 GMT -7
Hey Jesse, my pinky is as short as yours. I just haven't been as good about training it because it hasn't been a glaring weakness and I get it a bit through half and full crimps.
On the subject of finger length issues:
1) I have a pretty short index finger, which makes using small IM pockets virtually impossible because the index finger can't really get on the hold. So I've tried bigger pockets, but it seems like my middle finger is training way below limit (given that my MR pocket is less than a pad). Is it still worthwhile to train both of these grips when it feels like my IM is at about a V5 level while my MR is about a V8 (i.e. should I find another way to train the index finger while not "wasting" time with the middle?)?
2) Because of the shortness of my index finger, when I half crimp, in order to get a 90 degree angle on my middle and ring fingers, my index and pinky are essentially open-handing. Is that OK?
|
|
|
|
Post by MarkAnderson on Feb 20, 2015 16:42:47 GMT -7
Slim and Jesse, try taping your second pad. It will make things harder, but who cares?
Jon,
1. I still think it's worthwhile, if that's the best way you can come up with to isolate and train your index finger. The middle finger tends to get hammered since virtually every grip relies heavily on it, so if one grip gives it a bit of a break, that's not such a bad thing.
2....
|
|
|
|
Post by MarkAnderson on Feb 20, 2015 16:44:11 GMT -7
...2. yes. That is normal ( by which I mean that's how I do it  . |
|
|
|
Post by tedwelser on Feb 20, 2015 23:42:52 GMT -7
Hey Jesse- During my winter season I switched grips, and in the process I got rid of the MRP and replaced it with IM, MR, and RP. I did two strength cycles in winter, and the first one I did RP on the jugs because they are rounded and I felt like I was able to clearly engage the pinky (unlike some of the flatter slots where it is hard to get it to reach). And I used the IMR slot for my IM and my MR. I am doing the intermediate (two sets) routine, and ended the first cycle with full bodyweight on RP. Half way through my second HB series I switched RP to the deep 2 finger, and IM to IM and MR to MR and ended that season at about -50 for each grip.
Things I think I learned: (1) strengthening the pinky has carryover benefits to other grips, including the half crimp (since the pinky is more strongly engaged in that than open, full hand grips). (2) I use my RP team more now in my ARC and warmup traverses, which has a nice feature of resting the prime fingers (3) I used to think I preferred higher weight with better grips, but now I think I like lighter weight but with more challenging grips. I feel as though this is easier on my skin and potentially, easier on my connective tissue, since the overall load is lower. (4) I am glad to be using the harder 2 finger grips, even if I currently need to take 50 pounds off because I think I will be able to stick with these grips for several seasons.
Finally, I saw in my notes that during winter 1, I was doing the advanced routine 3 sets and 7 grips, but I felt the volume was too high, so now I am happy to be doing the intermediate, with just 2 sets per grip with 6 grips. During winter 2 I did:
warm up
1. sloper
2. half crimp outermost part of LVDER
3. RP in deep 2 finger
4. IM
5. half crimp outermost part of SVDER
6. MR
I am adding weight on sloper and LVDER, and subtracting weight on 3-6.
If I were to add anything it would be wide pinch, but I overdid the pinches in winter 1, and so I will see how that feels when I start up again in a few weeks.
|
|
|
|
Post by Chris W on Feb 21, 2015 4:58:43 GMT -7
Slim and Jesse, try taping your second pad. It will make things harder, but who cares? Does your hangboard get gunked up with tape goo when you do this? |
|
|
|
Post by jessebruni on Feb 23, 2015 10:03:50 GMT -7
Thanks for all the input and suggestions guys! Lastnight was my 10th and last hangboard workout for the season and all in all it went pretty well. The pinch grip was okay until I plateaued, and I plateaued hard, right around the 5th workout. I think now this may be my weakest grip so I'm going to try and hit that pretty hard next time. I think next time I'm also going to go down to RP on the deep 3 finger pocket as others have suggested and see how that feels. The IM grip ended up feeling pretty strong. Last season I was doing this grip on a hangboard on the deepest rung (1.5 pad) and could only handle 3 sets at bodyweight with 5:5 hang:rest protocol. This season I was doing 7:3 hang:rest protocol and got up to +35 on the IM deep pocket. Both this grip and the MRP grip improved with every workout and I never quite reached failure. For next season I'll be moving down to the IM shallow pocket and taking off weight, I think this will provide the best long term improvement for me.
I've also realized that the half crimp is a weakness for me. I posted a topic on this forum earlier and people suggested that since I was failing this grip due to a lack of endurance I should reduce the weight drastically and build the endurance up. This seems to have worked. Once I lowered the weight the half crimp grip improved with each workout and I ended with +10 on the largest portion of the SVDER and felt like there was room for improvement. Since this seems to be a weak grip I'm going to move it up in grip order during the workout.
I'm also thinking I should take Mark's advice and use grips that are prevalent on the goal route so I'm going to add in a full crimp set on the thin crimp since my goal route for the end of the year has some seriously vicious crimps on it. If anyone has experience with this grip I'd appreciate any tips you can give me since I know it's a potentially dangerous grip. I also would love some advice on grip order. My current thought is to do:
Large edge warmup
Half-Crimp
Wide Pinch
Full Crimp on thin crimp
RP
IM
Sloper
My thinking is that putting the wide pinch in between the two crimp grips will give my fingers a bit of a rest. I feel that the full crimp works the index and middle fingers more than the ring and pinky so I'll do RP after to give the IM a rest. Then IM, and follow it up with sloper, which I feel is more of a burnout type grip anyway. How does this sound?
|
|
|
|
Post by slimshaky on Feb 23, 2015 14:16:30 GMT -7
Slim and Jesse, try taping your second pad. It will make things harder, but who cares? ha ha! no need for taping now that i have a hangboard artfully hewn from the plastic of mount olympus! jesse, i switched from the deep IM to the medium IM for similar reasons, it just seemed more natural to not try to bury my fingers as deep and bend my index so much. for me, the shallow IM feels almost as good as the medium IM for pretty much the same reason. |
|
|
|
Post by MarkAnderson on Feb 23, 2015 15:30:14 GMT -7
Slim and Jesse, try taping your second pad. It will make things harder, but who cares? Does your hangboard get gunked up with tape goo when you do this? No. I could see how adding tape in a really humid environment might result in that though. Maybe try some less-sticky tape. What brand of tape do you use? I use Johnson & Johnson for orthopedic taping (and for skin protection while hangboarding). It's not especially sticky compared to some of the brands crack climbers prefer. |
|
|
|
Post by MarkAnderson on Feb 23, 2015 15:47:32 GMT -7
I should take Mark's advice Ya, no shit I also would love some advice on grip order. My current thought is to do: Large edge warmup Half-Crimp Wide Pinch Full Crimp on thin crimp RP IM Sloper
Generally I would advise that you do tweakier grips earlier, because connective tissue tends to stretch out over the course of a workout, and as it stretches it becomes more injury prone. In particular, I would avoid doing a grip that will get your ligaments nice and limber and then follow it with a similar-but-even-tweakier grip. This is counter-intuitive, because you probably think you are just getting a better warm up, but you should really strive to be warmed up before you start the workout. But most of the time, when people get injured it happens near the end of a session, 10 minutes after they should have stopped, rather than early in a session. It's usually the 10th time you try the mono move that results in injury, not the first time, etc. So anyway, I would move the pockets and full crimp earlier in the order, and shift the open-handed stuff towards the end. Something like:
Large Edge W/U RP Full Crimp IM Half Crimp Wide Pinch Sloper
or if you want to move the half crimp forward, and you don't feel the IM is tweaky:
Large Edge Full Crimp RP Half Crimp IM Wide Pinch Sloper
or if you want to favor the pinch over the half crimp:
Large Edge RP Full Crimp IM Wide Pinch Half Crimp Sloper
If it were me I would do the pinch and sloper last because I just believe those grips are relatively insignificant on real rock. If you want to climb hard in the gym, then they should definitely be a higher priority.
|
|
if you are hanging this much weigh on the MRP, i would go down to just the RP. i have the same short pinky syndrome, so i use the deep slot for this combo. also, using the deep slot keeps your R and M fingers out of the way.
.
