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Post by jessebruni on Feb 23, 2015 16:07:46 GMT -7
Thanks for the reply Mark! A few things of note which I hadn't mentioned previously but after reading your response I feel like they are relevant. If it were me I would do the pinch and sloper last because I just believe those grips are relatively insignificant on real rock. If you want to climb hard in the gym, then they should definitely be a higher priority.
I actually set the wide pinch as a priority because I do a fair amount of gym climbing and I do feel like it holds me back a bit. As far as real rock climbing goes I agree with you that slopers and pinches aren't nearly as common, but I climb on limestone so I actually see pinches more often than you would think (we even get a few bona-fide tufa climbs down here in cen-tex). Anyway, as long as my pinch strength improves I don't particularly care where it goes in the workout, but I do feel like it's a weak grip and I wanted to hit my weaknesses more than my strengths. I know I'm weird in this aspect because literally no climber that I know feels the same way, but I love pockets! They've never felt tweaky to me and anytime I encounter a route or a boulder problem with a mono it generally feels a grade softer to me than it does to most people. Like I mentioned earlier I climb on limestone and we have pockets everywhere, so maybe early exposure to pockets, or something about my finger length and size, made me perform well on them but I generally feel tweakier on pinches or crimps than I do on pockets. So with those considerations in mind would it change any of your 3 recommended grip orders?
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Post by MarkAnderson on Feb 23, 2015 18:32:03 GMT -7
Ok, good information. I can definitely see where pinching would come in on tufa climbs. Interestingly, I've been doing my pinch grip last for about ten years. It stagnated for a long time, and then I got the RPTC. Since then my pinch strength has just exploded (relatively speaking), even though I still do it last. I can really tell the difference whenever I encounter a pinch outside. I'm no longer completely terrified of bouldering in a commercial gym Anyway, maybe this: Large edge Full crimp Wide Pinch IM or RP (whichever is more important or more tweaky) Half Crimp IM or RP (whichever is less important...) Sloper You could also move the Half Crimp forward one if it's a higher priority than the pockets, and then use the sloper to break up the pockets. Although, since the pockets don't overlap (i.e. the same finger is not used on both pockets, as for the M finger in an IM and MR sequence) you might as well just do them back to back: LE FC WP HC IM/RP RP/IM Sloper
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Post by Chris W on Feb 23, 2015 21:05:50 GMT -7
Does your hangboard get gunked up with tape goo when you do this? No. I could see how adding tape in a really humid environment might result in that though. Maybe try some less-sticky tape. What brand of tape do you use? I use Johnson & Johnson for orthopedic taping (and for skin protection while hangboarding). It's not especially sticky compared to some of the brands crack climbers prefer. I use the same stuff you do. I'm just a bit particular about my precious little cherry-red RPTC. I treat it like a little newborn baby, until it's time to crank on it. My family thinks I'm just weird...
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Post by daustin on Feb 23, 2015 22:14:47 GMT -7
Generally I would advise that you do tweakier grips earlier, because connective tissue tends to stretch out over the course of a workout, and as it stretches it becomes more injury prone. In particular, I would avoid doing a grip that will get your ligaments nice and limber and then follow it with a similar-but-even-tweakier grip. This is counter-intuitive, because you probably think you are just getting a better warm up, but you should really strive to be warmed up before you start the workout. But most of the time, when people get injured it happens near the end of a session, 10 minutes after they should have stopped, rather than early in a session. It's usually the 10th time you try the mono move that results in injury, not the first time, etc. So anyway, I would move the pockets and full crimp earlier in the order, and shift the open-handed stuff towards the end. Interesting. I hear your point about injury usually happening 10 minutes after you should have stopped, but in my (admittedly, very limited) hangboarding experience, I've found that separating tweaky grips was really beneficial, even if it pushed them later in the workout. In my last HB cycle, I started with: 1) Jug 2) LVDER open 3) MR 4) SVDER half crimp 5) IMR 6) Wide pinch 7) Sloper
After a few workouts, I noticed my fingers feeling pretty cooked by the time I got to the IMR. Halfway through my cycle, I switched to: 3) MR 4) Wide Pinch 5) SVDER half crimp 6) Sloper 7) IMR
I had to adjust my baseline a bit to account for some of the grips being later in the workout and me being more fatigued when I got to them, but overall, I felt much less tweaky by having some nice open grips separating the MR, half crimp and IMR. For my next cycle, I might even move MR to 2) and shuffle around the subsequent grips a bit too.
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Post by MarkAnderson on Feb 24, 2015 8:59:24 GMT -7
I'm just a bit particular about my precious little cherry-red RPTC. I treat it like a little newborn baby, until it's time to crank on it. My family thinks I'm just weird...
No, you're not weird, that is the appropriate way to treat the RPTC.
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Post by jessebruni on Feb 24, 2015 9:37:46 GMT -7
Thanks again for the advice Mark. I like that second option and I think I'll end up going with that one. My next hangboard cycle is a few months out but I'll let ya'll know how it goes once I get it going. Regarding your comment about the pinches on the RPTC, I would say 70% of the reason that I went with the RPTC as a hangboard was that the pinches seemed amazing. No other hangboard I've ever been on offered decent (or any) pinches. I also liked that the RPTC came with a pulley system, and I honestly wonder why most other trainers and companies don't shout out how important the pulley system is to people. After using it, it seems like a no brainer and I end up giving people weird looks when they ask why I would use a pulley system. My question is, why would you use anything else?
Oh and Chris, how did you get a red RPTC? I personally would have loved a green one but I thought they only came in blue?
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Post by slimshaky on Feb 24, 2015 11:10:08 GMT -7
i think my next OCD endeavor is going to make a pilgrimage to see every color of RPTC. i have a brown one, my wife has a blue one (seems to be the most common color), my friend nate has an orange one i think, i saw a red one at bent gate, and it looks like mike and janelle's is green. any other colors out there?
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Post by Chris W on Feb 24, 2015 21:21:05 GMT -7
Jesse, red is just the color they sent. I'm assuming the board is made by the same folks that do e-grips. I have a lot of e-grips holds and the material feels the same. I don't know if you would be able to call and request a specific color or not.
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Post by MarkAnderson on Feb 25, 2015 21:14:35 GMT -7
I've also seen yellow, purple, and black (edit: actually, "charcoal"). The bottom line is that the colors are somewhat random. If you order directly from Trango I think you can call and request a specific color, but they may not have it in stock. The way it works is that a large vat of plastic is prepped, and then dyed a certain color. Then that color is used to fill a bunch of molds, including some RPTC molds, but also other e-Grips molds. e-Grips is known for the baby blue color, so they tend to use that color more often than others, but they cycle through the entire e-Grips "color wheel" because most e-Grips customers want a variety of colors. You can see the e-Grips color wheel here: www.e-grips.com/t-hold-technology.aspx#ColorSo between this thread it sounds like we've seen every color except pink. I have several sets of pink e-Grips holds. Anybody got a pink RPTC? It would make the perfect (belated) Valentine's Day gift! EDIT: Oops, the color wheel only shows 8 colors, but the text says they have 11 (the others being brown, "dune" and "sedona", whatever those are. Maybe dark tan and some type of reddish brown?)
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Post by slimshaky on Feb 26, 2015 15:19:40 GMT -7
if anybody ever spots a charcoal one, let me know. that would be sweet.
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Post by Chris W on May 13, 2015 13:03:23 GMT -7
Rather than start a new thread, I'm hoping to piggy back on this one.
I have been doing the intermediate hangboard workout with great success (and no plateaus) for the last year, but I've modified it a little. Instead of using 1 "warmup" grip and 7 "working" grips, I've only used one warm up and 6 grips. I initially did this to work around time constraints. Now I'm thinking of changing things to include a total of 8 grips. The grips, in order, are:
-warm up jug -LVDER open hand -deep 2 finger pocket IM -Wide pinch -SVDER half crimp -3 finger slot MRP -sloper
I would like to add a 2 finger pocket MR grip. Should I:
1) Add the MR 2 finger pocket after the MRP? This would keep my data consistent, except for the sloper, which isn't a big deal. It would put 2 grips together (MRP and MR) that seem very similar 2) Add the MR 2 finger pocket after the sloper? Would keep all my data consistent, but would be putting a grip I care more about after a grip I care less about. 3) Add the MR somewhere else? 4) Leave my workout the way it is, since it is working well? 5) Forget it all and advance to the advanced workout protocol?
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Post by jessebruni on May 13, 2015 13:39:43 GMT -7
I personally would not do MR right after MRP. I have short pinky's (who doesn't though?) and for me the MRP grip utilizes mostly MR anyway. The pinky helps out, but not nearly as much as the other two. I would consider replacing MRP with MR, and either leaving specific pinky training out, or if you feel like you still want to train the pinky do RP on the jugs like Ted did or with a metric shitload of weight taken off on the deep 3 finger slot. You could also try using the inside edges of the LVDER or SVDER depending on what seems like a better size.
I think the general advice given in the RCTM is to pick your holds based off of your goal routes. That seems to be good advice for anyone just starting out with hangboarding and the rock prodigy program in general, but one thing I've noticed on this and the mountain project training forum is that there seem to be two types of people. People who are going to train for a season, and people who are going to train for a lifetime. I think people who are going to train for a season are going to get the most bang for their buck by focusing on holds similar to their goal routes. I think people who are going to train for a lifetime are going to get the most bang for their buck by focusing on holds that are common in general. To that end I would say that MR is much more common than MRP, especially as routes get harder, and I would personally "value" MR more than MRP if it came down to a choice between the two.
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Post by joev9 on May 13, 2015 13:43:57 GMT -7
Jesse, I agree. Where I am there are not a lot of pockets but I love being strong on MR, it was always a grip I avoided at all costs, now I can hang with + weight and can use it whenever it is available.
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Post by MarkAnderson on May 13, 2015 14:36:17 GMT -7
...there seem to be two types of people. People who are going to train for a season, and people who are going to train for a lifetime. I think people who are going to train for a season are going to get the most bang for their buck by focusing on holds similar to their goal routes. I think people who are going to train for a lifetime are going to get the most bang for their buck by focusing on holds that are common in general. That's a great insight Jesse. I think we should all be primarily training for a lifetime, but I still think you can make subtle tweaks within each cycle to increase the odds of reaching your short-term goals along the way. I train the same grips every season, despite my goal route attributes changing drastically with the seasons. These are basic grips I know I will use over the long run. However, when I'm hangboarding, I know which grips will be critical for the coming season (for example, pockets before my fall 2014 trip to Frankenjura), and I make sure I put in my best effort on those grips.
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Post by MarkAnderson on May 13, 2015 14:40:44 GMT -7
I wouldn't put so much emphasis on preserving your original order. It's ok to "re-baseline" every now and then, it means you're getting stronger. So, if you like your previous order, I would swap MR for IM, and move IM after the pinch:
-warm up jug -LVDER open hand -MR -Wide pinch -IM -SVDER half crimp -3 finger slot MRP -sloper
However, I think its odd you're doing the pinch so early. Is that a really important grip for you? I would do the half crimp there, and put the pinch later (maybe just swap it with half crimp):
-warm up jug -LVDER open hand -MR -SVDER half crimp -IM -Wide pinch -3 finger slot MRP -sloper
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