jlind
New Member
Posts: 5 
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Post by jlind on Apr 3, 2017 12:40:55 GMT -7
Hi folks,
just curious if any of you are incorporating any maintenance hangboard sessions into the PE or Performance phases? How often or when is this useful?
thanks,
Joe
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Post by jonfrisby on Apr 3, 2017 13:36:46 GMT -7
I try to hangboard pretty much year round except during dedicated rest phases. I generally look for ~3 min TUT during a build phase and about half that for maintenance. So during the strength phase I might do 7 on 53 off * 3 for 2 sets per grip and 4 grips, for a total of 7*3*2*4 = 168 sec TUT (rest an additional 4 min between sets), while during a performance phase I'd just do the same for 1 set per grip for a total of 84 sec TUT. You can modify work and rest ratios to meet whatever goal you have - e.g. for more strength endurance, I may do a set of mini-repeaters - 7 on 3 off, 3 or 4 reps per set.
The nice thing about a halved time hangboard session is that in the above scheme, the time from the beginning of the first rep to the end of the last rep is 23:07, so you can pretty easily implement this once or twice a week after warm up but before a 4x4 or something. The full version of this workout takes 51:07.
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Post by Charlie S on Apr 4, 2017 18:38:09 GMT -7
Hmm, interesting concept on the halved hangboard. I've scheduled full hangboard sessions once every 2 weeks, but have yet to determine if that's effective. Halving it would certainly make it more palatable.
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Post by climbnkev on Apr 4, 2017 19:25:18 GMT -7
Definitely. Much easier to maintain strength than start from scratch every cycle. Best to look to other HB protocols that are less intensive for maintenance. I have had good luck with max hangs and ladders.
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Post by Otis. on Apr 5, 2017 8:57:19 GMT -7
Most strength coaches will tell you that you can maintain strength with one strength workout per week. So, I also do one shorter hangboard session per week throughout the year when I am not in a strength focused cycle. With that said, if you're other climbing training has a strength component involved, I would think one hangboard session every other week would probably work as well, but personally prefer the weekly maintenance.
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Post by jonfrisby on Apr 5, 2017 10:31:42 GMT -7
Most strength coaches will tell you that you can maintain strength with one strength workout per week. So, I also do one shorter hangboard session per week throughout the year when I am not in a strength focused cycle. With that said, if you're other climbing training has a strength component involved, I would think one hangboard session every other week would probably work as well, but personally prefer the weekly maintenance. Has this been shown to apply to tendon strength? |
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Post by aikibujin on Apr 5, 2017 12:26:45 GMT -7
I think it depends on what kind of routes you’re focusing on during your PE and performance phases. If you’re doing big overhanging jug hauls, then maybe some maintenance HB workout is worth it. But if you’re climbing on very fingery routes, then I’m not sure if you will gain anything from an additional HB workout, and it may even take energy away from working your goal route.
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Post by jonfrisby on Apr 5, 2017 12:49:15 GMT -7
I get what you mean by fingery routes maintaining finger strength more than jughauls, but I disagree that maintenance hangs detract from goal routes. HB workouts with <2 min TUT don't require much recovery, and I actually feel better recruited right after these than from a more typical warm-up.
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Post by aikibujin on Apr 5, 2017 13:53:28 GMT -7
That’s a fair point. I think it just comes down to the individual: what’s our weakness, how much time we have to train, what facility/equipment is available to us, etc. For me, I only have about 3-4 hours of week to train, half of that are supplemental exercises, so realistically I’m only doing 1.5-2 hours of climbing specific training on a hangboard every week. If I even get a chance to climb in a gym, I just can’t imagine spending half an hour on a hangboard when I can do half an hour of hard bouldering to maintain strength, power, and practice movement skills. My view is probably skewed since I spend so much time on a hangboard, maintenance hangs certainly seem to work for some of you.
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Post by Otis. on Apr 6, 2017 8:33:05 GMT -7
Most strength coaches will tell you that you can maintain strength with one strength workout per week. So, I also do one shorter hangboard session per week throughout the year when I am not in a strength focused cycle. With that said, if you're other climbing training has a strength component involved, I would think one hangboard session every other week would probably work as well, but personally prefer the weekly maintenance. Has this been shown to apply to tendon strength? Jon, unfortunately, I think we are still in such early stages of research into climbing training, that nobody has a concrete understanding of what works best. I'm grateful for the work that the Anderson brothers, Bechtel, Hampton, Lopez and a few others have done, but the reality is that we will all be way past our primes, if not in the grave before we have a significant base of research to say what is best for training finger strength for climbing. With that said, as a non-medical professional with only a basic understanding of human anatomy, it is my understanding that climbing grip strength still relies on the muscles in the forearms and the tendons are still primarily limited to their connective properties. So hangboarding once a week would keep the forearm muscles strong and doing hangboarding with other climbing activities would likely also keep the tendons strong, but unfortunately, I have no data to support that hypothesis, other than my own observations on my personal performance over the past year, but that would be pretty far from scientific. |
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Post by jonfrisby on Apr 6, 2017 8:56:24 GMT -7
That’s a fair point. I think it just comes down to the individual: what’s our weakness, how much time we have to train, what facility/equipment is available to us, etc. For me, I only have about 3-4 hours of week to train, half of that are supplemental exercises, so realistically I’m only doing 1.5-2 hours of climbing specific training on a hangboard every week. If I even get a chance to climb in a gym, I just can’t imagine spending half an hour on a hangboard when I can do half an hour of hard bouldering to maintain strength, power, and practice movement skills. My view is probably skewed since I spend so much time on a hangboard, maintenance hangs certainly seem to work for some of you. Yes given your constraints, this makes a lot of sense. I've got nothing going on in my life aside from my job, which can be anywhere from 40-80 hours in a week (deal based legal work). So I generally can afford to fit it in while still keeping good levels of movement training, at least on weekends.
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Post by jonfrisby on Apr 6, 2017 8:59:05 GMT -7
Has this been shown to apply to tendon strength? Jon, unfortunately, I think we are still in such early stages of research into climbing training, that nobody has a concrete understanding of what works best. I'm grateful for the work that the Anderson brothers, Bechtel, Hampton, Lopez and a few others have done, but the reality is that we will all be way past our primes, if not in the grave before we have a significant base of research to say what is best for training finger strength for climbing. With that said, as a non-medical professional with only a basic understanding of human anatomy, it is my understanding that climbing grip strength still relies on the muscles in the forearms and the tendons are still primarily limited to their connective properties. So hangboarding once a week would keep the forearm muscles strong and doing hangboarding with other climbing activities would likely also keep the tendons strong, but unfortunately, I have no data to support that hypothesis, other than my own observations on my personal performance over the past year, but that would be pretty far from scientific. I think part of the thinking behind more frequency has to do with the relatively lower blood-flow to the tendon as compared to muscle. Not a medical person either, but I would think more frequent stimulation would lead to enhanced blood flow to the tendons, and therefore faster growth, even compared to the same total TUT applied on a less frequent basis. |
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Post by Otis. on Apr 6, 2017 9:34:16 GMT -7
Jon, unfortunately, I think we are still in such early stages of research into climbing training, that nobody has a concrete understanding of what works best. I'm grateful for the work that the Anderson brothers, Bechtel, Hampton, Lopez and a few others have done, but the reality is that we will all be way past our primes, if not in the grave before we have a significant base of research to say what is best for training finger strength for climbing. With that said, as a non-medical professional with only a basic understanding of human anatomy, it is my understanding that climbing grip strength still relies on the muscles in the forearms and the tendons are still primarily limited to their connective properties. So hangboarding once a week would keep the forearm muscles strong and doing hangboarding with other climbing activities would likely also keep the tendons strong, but unfortunately, I have no data to support that hypothesis, other than my own observations on my personal performance over the past year, but that would be pretty far from scientific. I think part of the thinking behind more frequency has to do with the relatively lower blood-flow to the tendon as compared to muscle. Not a medical person either, but I would think more frequent stimulation would lead to enhanced blood flow to the tendons, and therefore faster growth, even compared to the same total TUT applied on a less frequent basis. Jon, how often do you hangboard during a non-strength focused cycle of your training? I see that you cut the TUT down from your strength phase, but don't think I saw the number of days you hang. I have thought about hanging more often during non-strength phases, but have yet to do so. I know Bechtel in his most recent book mentions a study on isometric training where you can gain significant strength from lighter, but more frequent lifts. I don't think the study was climbing specific, but still interesting. I also know that some elite climbers have mentioned that they try to hang a little from a hangboard every day. I am pretty sure both MacCleod and Graham have mentioned doing this. |
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Post by jonfrisby on Apr 6, 2017 11:00:04 GMT -7
1x-2x per week during performance phases. If I'm doing less than 2 minutes TUT, likely closer to 2x/week. I don't typically think in terms of weeks. I try to hang at least once every 5 days, but it may be more like 7 if I'm getting to the crag both days on the weekend
Couple options: Sat - project; Sun - project; Mon- rest; Tues - full HB session; Wed; endurance Thurs/Fri - rest; Sat - project Sat - project; Sun - half HB session; Mon - rest; Tues - half HB session + campusing or limit boulder; Wed - endurance; Thursday - half HB session; Friday rest; Sat - project
I find that you need to rest more AFTER hangboarding heavy, but you don't necessarily need to be 100% BEFORE the session. You can build strength at much lower percentages of your max effort than you can build power or send hard. |
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Post by srossabi42 on Apr 24, 2017 8:26:28 GMT -7
when doing maintenance hangs, do you increase resistance when you send a workout? or do you keep the resistance the same regardless of how the workout goes?
if you do increase resistance, do you find that you cant increase resistance as frequently as during a strength cycle?
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