|
|
Post by alexandra on Mar 4, 2017 19:20:24 GMT -7
here is a video of my 1-3-4.5 max ladder (the 4.5. is a medium rung, since in my gym we have an alternating row between small and mediums, but 1 and 3 are smalls). IMG_3262.mov (670.37 KB) Please let me know any comments/tips for improving my form etc. I would really appreciate it. |
|
|
|
Post by MarkAnderson on Mar 4, 2017 21:28:56 GMT -7
Your latching motion is very interesting. You have a lot of downward movement after you hit the rung. If you focus on the small of your back, it's pretty obvious that your center of mass is descending at the end of each latch. Ideally your COM would be constantly moving upwards, or at least not back-tracking. I'm a bit concerned about your elbows and shoulders. Does it feel threatening? It looks like your arm locks at the shoulder and elbow, especially after the first move. You can even see your head snap back after the first move, suggesting that it's pretty jarring.
I can't say with certainty what is causing this, but I have some guesses, which are inter-related:
1) It looks like you might be waiting until your reach the deadpoint to release the traveling hand, so you're already on the way down, with quite a bit of speed, by the time your hand latches. You don't have the greatest hand speed, though comparing to my videos, I'd guess yours is a bit better than mine  Try releasing that hand while you're still on the way up. Maybe do some shorter moves while concentrating on latching at the deadpoint (rather than releasing at the deadpoint).
2) The application of your lock-off strength isn't great, so you're not slowing your descent (while your other hand is traveling) as well as you could. This could be that you lack the lock off strength to slow your descent better. However, based on stuff you've posted elsewhere, I think you probably have some strength reserve that you aren't applying as well as you could, maybe because you aren't focusing on that. Try doing some touches where you primarily focus your effort on locking the stationary arm.
3) Considering the first two together, it could be that the lack of a lock-off makes it so that once you remove the traveling hand, you immediately descend, thus causing an immediate deadpoint. Thus the appearance that you are releasing too late is less about timing and more about locking off (or lack thereof), and attempting to release earlier won't accomplish anything. Something to consider if #1 doesn't help. Furthermore, looking at your first pull (off the ground), it's not very explosive. You might try yanking yourself off the ground with more speed, which should give you a bit more upward momentum when you release the traveling hand.
4) (More of a general comment, not necessarily related to your descending latch) On the first move, you release your traveling hand when your nose is roughly even with your hands. Looking at videos of myself, I release when my nose is an entire Moon Rung (22cm) above my hands. So maybe try pulling up higher before you release. Most people are stronger at locking off at certain joint angles, so in theory you could figure out which joint angle gives you the best lockoff, and try to release at that point. Instead I would just recommend that you pull as high as you can before releasing, and in the meantime, work on your lock off strength/application for all joint angles.
I think its a great idea to film yourself, and I would keep doing that while you try these tips to see if they make a difference. If nothing else, monitor the motion in your shoulders and elbows and try to break the habit of locking your arms on the latch. Also, if you film again, take a shot from directly behind too. |
|
|
|
Post by alexandra on Mar 4, 2017 22:19:05 GMT -7
thanks Mark,
Thanks for the advice, that makes sense. I ll try to work on those, probably doing smaller moves and paying attention to technique to start with. Do you think I should start off working on the medium or big rungs instead of the small ones in order to make those improvements? Or maybe the size of rung doesn't help?
Regarding the lockoff strength. I have noticed that while I can hold a lockoff (pretty much any position, including 90 degrees and deep lockoff) for over a minute straight with two arms, and I can do a lot of pull-ups as well as weighted pull-ups with 60% of my bodyweight added, when it comes to doing one arm lockoff I struggle. In fact, I can not really even do a one arm pull-up negative, where I lower myself very slow. I was wondering if you have any idea on why that would be. Am I lacking strength (and if so, how to work on it?) or is it possibly a matter of doing something wrong in terms of technique? I am really baffled by this...
|
|
|
|
Post by aikibujin on Mar 4, 2017 22:22:35 GMT -7
I agree with Mark, the first thing I noticed when I watched your video is your head snapping back after you latch the hold. I'm not a doctor or anything, but I imagine that can't be very good for your neck.
When I step through your video frame by frame, it looks like your center of gravity stopped moving upwards when your hand is still below the rung you're reaching for, so when you latch the rung, you're already on your way down. This is especially noticeable on the second latch.
When I step through the frames, I also noticed that as your head is snapping back, your scapula is getting pulled upwards. Again, not a doctor, but I imagine that's not good for your shoulders. I think ideally you want to pull your scapula down and back to protect your shoulders, just like when you're hangboarding. Lastly, after you latch the second move, it almost look to me that you pull your left hand from an open crimp to a close crimp before you match. Personally, I would avoid using the close crimp on the campus board. But at this point you're not pulling too hard with the left hand so I guess the risk of injury is not very high.
So my suggestion is to practice just a single move right now. I think you should try the max one-move, basically start matched on a rung, go up to the highest rung you can reach with one hand, then match on it. I notice you pull into the first move with your feet still on the ground. I suggest start from a higher rung so you're free hanging (but don't lock your elbows straight), not touching the ground. You should be "coiling up" for the explosive pullup, so you need a little space below you to do that. A huge part of campusing is timing, so really aim to hit the next rung at the deadpoint (when your body momentarily stops moving up or down), and keep everything (scapula, shoulders, elbows) tight so your head is not snapping back and your shoulder is not getting pulled away from its socket. This also means you need to release your reaching hand while your body is still in its upward trajectory, and the simpliest way to do that is to be explosive enough on the inital pull, when you released your reaching hand, your other hand is still pulling you toward the next rung (not simply locked off) by using your upward momentum.
Give the max one-move a try, and I'm also curious on what your max one-move is. I think your max one-move can give us a hint on where you should be in your max ladder.
|
|
|
|
Post by aikibujin on Mar 4, 2017 22:49:01 GMT -7
when it comes to doing one arm lockoff I struggle. In fact, I can not really even do a one arm pull-up negative, where I lower myself very slow. The body mechanics of a one-arm lockoff is very different from a two-arm lockoff. With the two-arm lockoff, your arms balance each other, so your body is in a stable position. With the one-arm, your center of gravity is offset from your arm, so that creates a torque on your arm which you have to counter. So you may need to engage muscles that you do not use in a two-arm lockoff. I'm willing to bet that even if you can add 100% of your bodyweight in a two-arm lockoff, you may still have trouble with the one-arm lockoff. The fact you cannot do one-arm negative is an indication that you have some muscle that's not trained/strong enough for one-arm lockoff. If you're able to utilize a pulley for your pullup, I'd suggest remove some bodyweight and work on the one-arm negative or one-arm lockoff specifically. |
|
|
|
Post by MarkAnderson on Mar 5, 2017 7:41:38 GMT -7
Do you think I should start off working on the medium or big rungs instead of the small ones in order to make those improvements? Or maybe the size of rung doesn't help? That's a good question. It's possible that finger strength is contributing to your rapid descent (when you release the traveling hand), but I don't think so. I would try it on larger rungs a couple times and see if it makes a difference. If not, stick with the small rungs so your fingers are getting some work while you're practicing. In fact, I can not really even do a one arm pull-up negative, where I lower myself very slow. I was wondering if you have any idea on why that would be. Am I lacking strength (and if so, how to work on it?) or is it possibly a matter of doing something wrong in terms of technique? Huh, I was going to suggest doing 1-arm negatives. My guess is you have the strength in there somewhere, but your muscles aren't recruiting effectively for a 1-arm lockoff. I still think 1-arm negatives would be a good place to start, but with some assistance. The easiest way to do that is with an offset pull-up, using the inactive hand to assist only as much as you need. That takes some will power to limit the assistance from your inactive hand. I do these on a single ring, with my low hand pulling (pressing, really) on the tail of the ring strap. I have noticed that while I can hold a lockoff (pretty much any position, including 90 degrees and deep lockoff) for over a minute straight Maybe too much endurance (training your muscles to minimize recruitment)? |
|
|
|
Post by alexandra on Mar 5, 2017 8:20:38 GMT -7
Something that I forgot to mention, which makes even less sense to me regarding the lockoff: I was attempting the one arm negatives and one arm lockoffs on the pull-up bar, and this is where it seems to me that I can't really do them, as I said on my previous post.On the rings, or on any other device where I can have my palm facing my body (so like a chin-up grip instead of a pull-up grip), I have held a one arm deep lockoff (past 90 degrees, where my elbow is completely bent) for about 30 sec... Interestingly, when I do two arm exercises, I am much stronger at pull-ups than chin-ups! Any explanation for that? It seems like the campus board requires one arm kickoff strength using more of like a pull-up grip:(
I have been doing the one arm assisted negatives, but as mark said, it has been hard to control how much assistance I give from the other arm, so I feel they are not helping much or I am cheating too much.. I think I might try to use my pulley system that I have set up for the hang board and maybe try to do the one arm lockoffs and negatives on the jug grip- do you think that is a good idea?
|
|
|
|
Post by brendann on Mar 7, 2017 7:44:34 GMT -7
One-arm assisted hangs on the hangboard are a good option because they are specific to the position that you will encounter climbing.
I disagree with Mark and think that a lot of your uncontrolled form comes from a lack of finger strength. I have noticed that my shoulder acts as a fail-safe for my fingers when they could be overloaded. You can test this by trying a lockoff on a jug and a lockoff on an edge. My shoulder drops out when trying to lock off on the edge even though it can support my body while hanging the jug.
I would recommend ceasing campusing without your feet for a while until you can tighten up and control your form.
|
|
|
|
Post by jonfrisby on Mar 7, 2017 10:39:14 GMT -7
Something that I forgot to mention, which makes even less sense to me regarding the lockoff: I was attempting the one arm negatives and one arm lockoffs on the pull-up bar, and this is where it seems to me that I can't really do them, as I said on my previous post.On the rings, or on any other device where I can have my palm facing my body (so like a chin-up grip instead of a pull-up grip), I have held a one arm deep lockoff (past 90 degrees, where my elbow is completely bent) for about 30 sec... Interestingly, when I do two arm exercises, I am much stronger at pull-ups than chin-ups! Any explanation for that? It seems like the campus board requires one arm kickoff strength using more of like a pull-up grip:( I have been doing the one arm assisted negatives, but as mark said, it has been hard to control how much assistance I give from the other arm, so I feel they are not helping much or I am cheating too much.. I think I might try to use my pulley system that I have set up for the hang board and maybe try to do the one arm lockoffs and negatives on the jug grip- do you think that is a good idea? To me this seems to be an issue of weak shoulder stabilizer muscles and strong biceps compared to lats. |
|
|
|
Post by ehowell on Mar 7, 2017 13:04:39 GMT -7
Oh damn, can I jump on this thread?
I think what Jon is mentioning could be an issue with me (especially on my left hand leads, which are always weaker). I do think there's some non-optimal movement in my lower body. I never knew how much I am swinging until filming this.
This is 1-3-4.5 on small rungs. I'm getting fairly consistent at these, but 1-3-5 on small still feels a ways off.
|
|
|
|
Post by jonfrisby on Mar 7, 2017 15:29:12 GMT -7
Oh damn, can I jump on this thread? I think what Jon is mentioning could be an issue with me (especially on my left hand leads, which are always weaker). I do think there's some non-optimal movement in my lower body. I never knew how much I am swinging until filming this. This is 1-3-4.5 on small rungs. I'm getting fairly consistent at these, but 1-3-5 on small still feels a ways off. Try to film yourself on larger rungs. It looks like that could be the issue. But if you don't have the problem with bigger rungs, it may just be that you can't hold on with one hand to a small rung as well as needed to stick the move at a deadpoint
ETA: it doesn't seem like your shoulder is falling apart like Alexandra's does, for what it's worth.
|
|
|
|
Post by aikibujin on Mar 7, 2017 16:25:43 GMT -7
This is 1-3-4.5 on small rungs. I'm getting fairly consistent at these, but 1-3-5 on small still feels a ways off. Hey, I’ve campused on that board!  I can’t look at your video frame-by-frame until I get on my home computer, so I cannot do my usual analysis full of screenshots and random photos of people climbing much harder than me. But it doesn’t look like your lower body swing is the issue. I also do some pretty wild swings with my legs, often resulting in bloody shins after a campus board workout. To me, it looks like you’re almost rushing too much on the second move. You barely pulled up from the offset position before you reached up with your right hand, which kills your momentum and causes you to kick your legs out in an attempt to not stall. I see two possibilities: 1. you’re strong enough to do the move but simply releasing your lower hand too early (so a timing issue). To fix this, you can make a conscious effort to keep your lower hand on for as long as you can; 2. You’re not pulling up explosively enough, so you’re just throwing for the next rung as soon as you can (so a strength/power issue). To fix this, you need to get stronger. Have you tried working the second move separately on the campus board? I’ve found this to be the one exercise that helped me the most. It taught me how to keep the lower hand on the rung for as long as I can (and even turn the lower hand into a mantle), and in the process I feel like it increased my lock-off strength. So basically I start by freehanging with my hands on offset rungs, L1/R3 for example. I try to pull up as explosively as I can (which is not very explosive at all), and when I reach the top of my pullup, I try to lock-off as hard as I can with my higher hand and reach up as high as I can with my lower hand. Maybe I’ll latch a rung, maybe I won’t. My focus is on the lock-off, not on latching a rung, because my lock-off is not strong enough so I generally fall back down a little as soon as I release my lower hand. By working this second move in isolation, I felt like I was able to work on the timing much better, and also got stronger in my lock-off. Then it was relatively easy to apply these new gains to my max ladder. |
|
|
|
Post by alexandra on Mar 7, 2017 20:45:37 GMT -7
Thank you everyone for the comments and suggestions! These are very helpful.
From what I read on this thread it seems to me that the biggest problem is my lockoff strength. I would be surprised if the main problem is finger strength, since I am able to add a bunch of weight for my max hangs on the hang board on the smallest edges and crimp (open, semi-closed and closed). It looks like the last suggestion of working on the second move only and not worrying about latching the rung would be most beneficial here, so I will give this a shot as a way to train lockoffs, together with assisted negatives as Mark suggested, and assisted lockoffs on the hang board. I will also try to see if indeed there is any difference me hanging form a jug or from an edge regarding the lockoff and report back with observations/progress. There is yet another exciting journey towards getting stronger ahead of me and I am looking forward to it!!
|
|
|
|
Post by jetjackson on Mar 7, 2017 21:21:16 GMT -7
Just checked the video. Are they alternating the rungs small/medium/small?
I hate it when they do that. I've seen it at one gym and it effectively makes the small rungs useless.
|
|
|
|
Post by alexandra on Mar 7, 2017 21:48:05 GMT -7
yes they are alternating  I have repeatedly advised them against it, but who listens to me... |
|
Try releasing that hand while you're still on the way up. Maybe do some shorter moves while concentrating on latching at the deadpoint (rather than releasing at the deadpoint).
I have repeatedly advised them against it, but who listens to me...