Plyometric pull-ups

[joshvillen]

Has anyone messed around with plyometric pull-ups for shoulder power? Adding additional weight as needed

[rob]

Aug 20, 2015 10:11:14 GMT -7 joshvillen said:

Has anyone messed around with plyometric pull-ups for shoulder power? Adding additional weight as needed

Not done it, and especially wouldn't at the moment recovering from shoulder impingement, but just curious, you say shoulder power? Do you mean pulling power or something else? I think mark "explosive" pull ups so will be able to offer some advice?

I think this is one of those things where you have to consider the value/ effort ratio, if the routes you climb are steep super powerful (amd juggy) then it could be a useful addition, but campusing works the explosive pull aspect of climbing pretty well for most climbers I would guess, IMO. Maybe you could incorporate this more into campusing, using larger rungs, thus targeting more climbing specific muscles and recreating more specific movement?

I'm really getting into this whole "how valuable is this to my training/ climbing?" concept with every single exercise I do, but maybe the answer to this for you is "very!".

[jessebruni]

I've tried the whole "double dyno to rung 3, drop down to rung 2, explode back up to rung 4" thing. Seems pretty plyometric, but also pretty damn hard (couldn't get up to rung 4).

[joshvillen]

Yes I am referring to pulling power, in effect, what you would be doing doubling up and down a campus board. But on a bar you can isolate the shoulder muscles more and add tons of weight

[Will S]

They aren't going to be truly "plyometric" which works off the stretch shortening reflex. Basically some energy is stored in the eccentric and released in the concentric, but this doesn't happen if the transition and pulse takes too long. Too long being over about 350ms. If it goes too long, you lose the stored energy.

There was a similar thread on MtnProj a while back about using campus drops for a similar effect. I argued that it's not actually plyometric. Here's a couple quotes from a study article I was sourcing from:

Article link: www.marvinclimbing.com/english/articles.php?id=21&page=151

"Inside the conclusions of this study we can see that the times of force development until the arms take off in the campus jump are 691 + - 10,5 ms; keeping in mind that after 450 ms the nervous system can regulate the movement by the intervention of the antagonistic muscles, and the myotatic reflex, impeding the development of the increased power involved in plyometric activities. Due to that duration of the force expression, the campus jump cannot be considered a dynamic expression as a jump. "

and

"Plyometrics implies an eccentric (stretching) contraction immediately followed by a concentric contraction, in other words stretch the muscle before contracting so that the accumulated energy during the eccentric contraction is released during the concentric contraction producing a more powerful movement. But the main characteristic is the duration of the impulse phase (concentric contraction). This is denominated Stretch Shortening Cycle.
Actions that overcome 350 ms lose that whole accumulated energy, so they are not plyometric exercises."

Mtn Proj thread link:
mountainproject.com/v/plyometrics-with-campus-drops/110100580#a_110114889

[MarkAnderson]

I would avoid adding tons of weight while do this (assuming by plyometric contraction you mean starting in the locked off position, descending fairly quickly, and then snapping back up). You could potentially wreck your elbows by shock-loading them at the low point of the contraction. I would recommended limiting the range of motion so you aren't even close to locking out your elbows in the down position, and using very light weight (really, I would recommend no added weight at all, doing it with body weight should be sufficient to improve your contraction speed).

You could complement body-weight plyo pulls with assisted 1-arms. I do these by using the inactive arm to assist on the pull up, and then I relax that arm and descend for what amounts to an over-loaded negative contraction. It lacks the speed element but I find it works really well for building recruitment in the pull muscles.

[joshvillen]

I recall the mountain project conversation, I called it a "plyometric pullup" to simply describe the movement. I am sure the research is sound and that we cant consider it truly a plyometric action.

But what is your opinion WILL S, would the workout be successful at developing explosive pulling power?

[joshvillen]

Aug 20, 2015 12:59:05 GMT -7 MarkAnderson said:

I would avoid adding tons of weight while do this (assuming by plyometric contraction you mean starting in the locked off position, descending fairly quickly, and then snapping back up). You could potentially wreck your elbows by shock-loading them at the low point of the contraction. I would recommended limiting the range of motion so you aren't even close to locking out your elbows in the down position, and using very light weight (really, I would recommend no added weight at all, doing it with body weight should be sufficient to improve your contraction speed).

You could complement body-weight plyo pulls with assisted 1-arms. I do these by using the inactive arm to assist on the pull up, and then I relax that arm and descend for what amounts to an over-loaded negative contraction. It lacks the speed element but I find it works really well for building recruitment in the pull muscles.

So, what I am imagining in this exercise is releasing the hands at the apex of the pullup (think push ups where you clap your hands together mid-air) 

I've done plenty of one arm work, eccentric, isometric, and concentric 

I find that I recover very poorly from intense negative workouts i.e almost 4 days of rest is required and the volume was relatively low

[jessebruni]

You mean like clapping pull ups? Or like a salmon ladder without moving the bar?

[joshvillen]

Yes, but you dont need to clap, just take your hands off the bar mid air and then catch it again on the way down

[Will S]

To me, explosiveness is about speed. I would think something like max touches on the campus board at bodyweight would be more effective with less injury potential. If you have issues with recovering from eccentrics, the thing you are proposing would probably wreck you because it is has a substantial eccentric component but amplifies it by adding a momentum element, so you get a more forceful eccentric part of the movement.

I personally wouldn't do it. What I use for myself and training others are sets of 4 rep (2 reps per side) max touches where you don't drop back to the starting rung, you just release and drop to the floor then immediately do one on the other side. So it looks like (we start on a rung higher than #1, so you can start quickly from a standing position without squatting down and lifting legs):

Every rep starts matched on Rung 2 (or whatever is appropriate for your height and board).
RH 2->5 (should be max, might be 2-4 or 2-6), release and drop
LH 2->5, release and drop
RH 2->5, release and drop
LH 2->5, release and drop
Set over.

No rest between reps. 3-5min rest between sets. Focus is on pulling as fast and hard as possible to reach highest rung. If you reach one and can hang it, hang it and immediately drop. If your pull ends up short of the rung, just drop. Especially with a board that doesn't have half-spaced rungs you want the focus on the pulling, not the rung catching.

This gives you a full range of the pulling motion, emphasizes explosiveness/speed of contraction, avoids the eccentric, and has significantly less injury potential.

I've never like doubles on the campus board because I slam my tips into the board above the rungs on the catching motion, whether going up or down. And for whatever reason I feel like I can pull harder and through a longer range of motion when doing max touches than a max double.

[jessebruni]

Aug 20, 2015 17:24:14 GMT -7 Will S said:

I've never like doubles on the campus board because I slam my tips into the board above the rungs on the catching motion, whether going up or down.

Like 90% of the reason I rarely do doubles right there.