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Post by sorvad on Aug 18, 2015 16:01:56 GMT -7
I don't have the book by me, but I recall that the pinch grip is described as different from all the other grips because it ideally should be trained isotonically, as pinches can be found in so many different widths and isometric training only has an effect on a very limited joint angle. The solution to this in the book is to train the pinch in varying widths. While this probably works, there are several disadvantages: 1. You might be missing certain widths. 2. Training one width may deteriorate your training of another width and thereby not giving you the result you want. 3. Training multiple pinch widths takes more time. A few days ago when searching around for pinch training I found this blogpost by Eva López: en-eva-lopez.blogspot.com.es/2013/02/training-pinch-strength-for-climbing.html?m=1One interesting exercise for pinch grip she proposes is lifting and lowering weight with your thumb like this:  and/or this:  . To me this seems like a good way to train the pinch. First of all it is isotonic and therefore trains for any width the pinch might have. Secondly, forgetting the thumb for a minute, our other fingers are typically in a grip that we already train on the hangboard (open hand or half-crimp), meaning that this part of the pinch we are already training. It is the other part of the pinch we don't train much: the thumb. Have anybody tried training pinch like this? Do you think it would be a good way to develop pinch strength? Anybody got another magic isotonic way of training pinch? |
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Post by sorvad on Aug 23, 2015 13:14:59 GMT -7
I'll allow myself to bump this one time as I'm starting a cycle soon and might try training my pinch like this. If anyone have any experience or thoughts about training pinch this way please share!  If nobody has anything to add I'll let you know in few weeks how effective training this way is. My plan is to test pinch strength in different widths before and after the cycle, with this being the only way I'll be training pinch. |
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Post by MarkAnderson on Aug 23, 2015 15:50:30 GMT -7
I think it's a worthy experiment. I would look into some other options for an isotonic contraction though. I think you could find something more specific than what is shown in your photos (which looks to me more like a Thumb curl at the DIP joint). There are a number of different machines out there that seem to have potential. One of the better options I've seen is the "titan's telegraph key" (TTK). You would need to add a larger gripping surface to the commercial versions though.  |
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Post by sorvad on Aug 24, 2015 3:10:54 GMT -7
I think it's a worthy experiment. I would look into some other options for an isotonic contraction though. I think you could find something more specific than what is shown in your photos (which looks to me more like a Thumb curl at the DIP joint). There are a number of different machines out there that seem to have potential. One of the better options I've seen is the "titan's telegraph key" (TTK). You would need to add a larger gripping surface to the commercial versions though. That is an interesting device. Doesn't look very high-tech -- probably could fix one up for myself. Have you tried something similar yourself? Regarding the photos I posted, that are directly from Eva Lopez blog I think they are meant to picture two different exercises. Both where you try to simulate a pinch and not just curl your thumb. To me it seem like it should train pretty much the same as the titan, with the main difference being that you thumb goes up to you downward facing palm instead of the opposite. |
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Post by Lundy on Aug 24, 2015 19:35:00 GMT -7
Sorvad, I look forward to hearing your experience with this. I'd love to find a more efficient way to train pinches. In the locations I climb a lot, there are minimal pinches, so I don't like to spend a lot of time working them, but I'm also soooooo bad at them I feel like it's necessary. So the more efficiently I could train them, the better. Please do share how this works for you.
Also, for someone in my position, what would folks recommend for training pinches isometrically? Have folks found that thin pinch training can help with wide pinches or vice-versa, or should I maybe rotate the different pinch grips by training cycle? I'd really like not to train more than one pinch grip per season, but am not sure which one to use for general pinch strength (if that even exists)...
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erk
Junior Member
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Post by erk on Aug 26, 2015 23:08:10 GMT -7
My bro has been using the TTK and pinch blocks that you can hang weight from. I'll report back with his findings when I get them as he hasn't been super strong on pinches.
However, I will say that I have found the RPTC to be adequate for training pinches. Last cycle I got on a bouldery 13c during my power phase (bouldering on a rope). It has this rad pinch on it that's width is in between the the small and wide pinch on the RPTC. Last cycle I could gain the hold and move off of it and that was it, this cycle I have been able to gain the hold, clip, then move. And this has got me pretty psyched.
Is the RPTC the best for training pinches? I don't know. But will you get stronger? Yes!
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Post by sorvad on Aug 27, 2015 3:14:36 GMT -7
My bro has been using the TTK and pinch blocks that you can hang weight from. I'll report back with his findings when I get them as he hasn't been super strong on pinches. However, I will say that I have found the RPTC to be adequate for training pinches. Last cycle I got on a bouldery 13c during my power phase (bouldering on a rope). It has this rad pinch on it that's width is in between the the small and wide pinch on the RPTC. Last cycle I could gain the hold and move off of it and that was it, this cycle I have been able to gain the hold, clip, then move. And this has got me pretty psyched. Is the RPTC the best for training pinches? I don't know. But will you get stronger? Yes! Nice! I would love to hear his findings before trying this out my self, so that I do not waste my own time! Is he in the middle of a cycle or do you have any idea when you could get them? Also, good to hear that RPTC pinch training effected other pinch widths as well, that was one of my big doubts about that method for pinches. |
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erk
Junior Member
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Post by erk on Aug 27, 2015 12:12:30 GMT -7
He just started his power phase. I'll let you know when I hear back.
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Post by jonfrisby on Aug 29, 2015 15:15:00 GMT -7
I think that the concern you have with training multiple pinches (dilution) would still be a problem here because every incremental point on the range of motion would be a different grip position, so rather than getting 100% effort from one position, you'd still be getting less effort at each angle??? Or is that not right?
Also Mark or anyone using the RPTC, what is your thumb doing when you're using the wide pinch? I can barely get a full pad into the slot between the grip and the wall so I kind of crook my thumbs to smear as much surface area as possible.
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Post by RyanJohnson on Aug 30, 2015 11:31:56 GMT -7
I think that the concern you have with training multiple pinches (dilution) would still be a problem here because every incremental point on the range of motion would be a different grip position, so rather than getting 100% effort from one position, you'd still be getting less effort at each angle??? Or is that not right? Also Mark or anyone using the RPTC, what is your thumb doing when you're using the wide pinch? I can barely get a full pad into the slot between the grip and the wall so I kind of crook my thumbs to smear as much surface area as possible. I think that those of us working pinch grips isometrically are under the assumption that there is still a +/- 15 degree(or so) range about the joint angle that is also being strengthened; just like when utilizing a half-crimp to help strengthen a full crimp. So by using 2-3 different widths for pinches, maybe the economics of (specificity vs. training time vs. recovery) works out well enough. So while you're getting less 100% effort at every possible pinch angle, it may be satisfactory for the majority of pinches encountered. As for the RPTC pinches, if your thumbs don't fit so well, I'd locate a jigsaw and make a backing plate like Mike Anderson made in Adjustable Mount 2.0. |
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Post by sorvad on Aug 31, 2015 11:52:09 GMT -7
I think that the concern you have with training multiple pinches (dilution) would still be a problem here because every incremental point on the range of motion would be a different grip position, so rather than getting 100% effort from one position, you'd still be getting less effort at each angle??? Or is that not right? Well you could use the same argumentation with all other weight training, e.g. biceps curls vs. isometric bicep holds of weight. I don't really think it holds up. Say you train 3 different widths of pinches: First one will probably be the one where you see the biggest gains as you train it with the least fatigued muscles. Vice verca for the last one. You could fix this by cycling the pinches from workout to workout, but an easier approach could be training them isotonic, where each pinch with get approximately the same focus. To me isometric vs. isotonic can be summed up like this: Do you want to be very strong, but at a very limited angle choose isometric training. Do you want to be strong (note the missing "very") at the full ROM choose isotonic training. As climbers we want to be very strong in our fingers, but we only need to be in few very limited angles, why we choose to train crimp, open hand, etc. isotonic. Pinches are however different as we want to be strong at a lot of different widths, why isotonic training could be more ideal. Powerlifters train full range of motion as well, not 3 different isometric positions. |
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Post by sorvad on Sept 2, 2015 10:15:05 GMT -7
Planned on starting today with initial weight-in and test, but I was even weaker in the pinch than I thought and will have to go get some more weight.
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Post by Dan4geng on May 11, 2017 0:53:57 GMT -7
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Post by climber511 on May 11, 2017 6:45:02 GMT -7
Here's a cheap and easy Pinch Device Attachments:
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