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Post by willblack on Jun 2, 2015 8:31:27 GMT -7
I am on my third RCTM Cycle, been climbing about 3 years. I boulder V6ish, low 5.12 sport, mid 5.11 trad. I'm about to finish my strength phase, and this cycle I have barely moved up at all on my semi-closed crimp (I use a decent half pad edge with not too much texture for this grip)(First workout second set resistance: -5lbs. 9th workout second set resistance:body weight) By contrast, second set resistance for my open hand edge (highly textured 1-pad edge) went from +20 to +40 in ten workouts. I'm tall, at 6'5" and I tend to hangboard at 170lbs and send at around 155. Being that I'm a pretty big dude, small holds tend to be a weakness for me so I consider my semi-closed edge to be the most important grip for me to train. Any thoughts on why I am having trouble progressing on this grip in particular?
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Post by jessebruni on Jun 2, 2015 8:38:42 GMT -7
Are you failing at bodyweight? It honestly sounds like you just started at a weight too high. For your next cycle I'd start with -30 or -25. You should be able to improve by 5 lbs per session and it will give you 2 or 3 workouts to improve upon your +0 max, plus you'll have all that momentum of improving every week to help you.
It could also have to do with the order you're doing your grips in. Would you mind listing that information?
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Post by willblack on Jun 2, 2015 8:58:08 GMT -7
Yeah, I do Jug (warmup), Lg open hand, Sm semi-closed, MR Pocket, IM pocket, Sloping 1-pad edge, Narrow Pinch. And yes, I'm failing at bodyweight on the last rep or two of the second set but just barely.
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Post by jessebruni on Jun 2, 2015 9:28:30 GMT -7
Yeah grip order seems okay. I am sticking with my original assessment, I think you just started at an intensity that was too high. Ramp it up more slowly next time. I had similar problems with the half-crimp during my first season. I toned it way down and by the end of my second season I made huge gains, it actually ended up being my most improved grip over season 2.
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Post by willblack on Jun 2, 2015 10:02:48 GMT -7
it actually ended up being my most improved grip over season 2. I'd be pretty psyched on that, crimps have always been a challenge for me.
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Post by jonfrisby on Jun 3, 2015 5:27:21 GMT -7
Yeah grip order seems okay. I am sticking with my original assessment, I think you just started at an intensity that was too high. Ramp it up more slowly next time. I had similar problems with the half-crimp during my first season. I toned it way down and by the end of my second season I made huge gains, it actually ended up being my most improved grip over season 2. I'd like to echo all of this. I just finished my 3rd HB workout of the cycle doing what Jesse prescribes - backing off the starting resistance more than you might think necessary. All of my grips have improved every time (narrow pinch is a little slow, partly because of too much chalk getting stuck in the grip) but my open crimp feels noticeably stronger, more so than I feel would have been the case had I started closer to my max. I think many times people treat strength training a little too similarly to how they treat power - i.e. that you have to be training at your max to derive benefit. Often, the big gains can be made when exerting 80-90% effort, and actually being able to complete all (three in my case) sets can have benefit above and beyond what hanging more weight would get you. Really, your first session or two of hang boarding shouldn't feel too terribly hard.
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Post by slimshaky on Jun 3, 2015 8:55:55 GMT -7
the half crimp takes a while to get used to in terms of holding it just right. i still have workouts where i feel like i am holding it a bit incorrectly and my performance suffers a bit. in general, it is pretty easy to either go fully open or full crimp because we are more used to applying those grips.
i agree with backing off maybe 15 lbs or so and slowly ramping it back up.
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Post by James_E on Jun 3, 2015 10:16:29 GMT -7
The subject of the "half crimp" always confuses me. Are you referring to the grip where your index and pinky fingers are relatively straight, with your middle and ring flexed at the PIP joint? Or where all four fingers are flexed 90 degrees at the PIP joint?
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Post by jorgemendoza on Jun 3, 2015 12:55:45 GMT -7
The subject of the "half crimp" always confuses me. Are you referring to the grip where your index and pinky fingers are relatively straight, with your middle and ring flexed at the PIP joint? Or where all four fingers are flexed 90 degrees at the PIP joint?
Isn't "half crimp" the latter? I call the former "chisel", or simply 4 fingers open-hand
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Post by willblack on Jun 3, 2015 13:27:33 GMT -7
The subject of the "half crimp" always confuses me. Are you referring to the grip where your index and pinky fingers are relatively straight, with your middle and ring flexed at the PIP joint? Or where all four fingers are flexed 90 degrees at the PIP joint? Half crimp is the latter. At least that's what I call a half crimp
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Post by MarkAnderson on Jun 3, 2015 19:03:09 GMT -7
... I think many times people treat strength training a little too similarly to how they treat power - i.e. that you have to be training at your max to derive benefit. Often, the big gains can be made when exerting 80-90% effort, and actually being able to complete all (three in my case) sets can have benefit above and beyond what hanging more weight would get you. Really, your first session or two of hang boarding shouldn't feel too terribly hard. This is exactly right. If you're failing early in your sets all the time, then your training volume becomes significantly reduced, perhaps enough that you are no longer in a good intensity/duration zone for strength building.
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Post by willblack on Jun 4, 2015 3:56:19 GMT -7
... I think many times people treat strength training a little too similarly to how they treat power - i.e. that you have to be training at your max to derive benefit. Often, the big gains can be made when exerting 80-90% effort, and actually being able to complete all (three in my case) sets can have benefit above and beyond what hanging more weight would get you. Really, your first session or two of hang boarding shouldn't feel too terribly hard. This is exactly right. If you're failing early in your sets all the time, then your training volume becomes significantly reduced, perhaps enough that you are no longer in a good intensity/duration zone for strength building. That's interesting, I was under the impression that it needed to be maximum intensity. If I barely fail on the end of the last rep or two of my last set, I should probably still stay at that weight for the next workout though, correct? Assuming I'm several workouts into my strength phase
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Post by jessebruni on Jun 4, 2015 8:42:18 GMT -7
If I barely fail on the end of the last rep or two I would say that if you're failing on the 2nd to last rep of the last set you're not "Barely" failing. That's just regular old fashioned failing. Barely failing would be failing on the last second or half second of the last rep of the last set. But yeah, I'd only increase the weight if I were successful or if I slipped off due to lack of chalk, or a distraction, or something that I knew was not a strength related issue.
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Post by MarkAnderson on Jun 4, 2015 12:50:28 GMT -7
The ideal failure point is at 7.0 seconds of the last rep of the last set (within a given grip). If you fail at that point or later, add more weight next workout. If you fail prior to that, you did NOT complete the set, and you should repeat the same weight next time. Of course there are exceptions
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Post by joev9 on Jun 5, 2015 12:30:17 GMT -7
The ideal failure point is at 7.0 seconds of the last rep of the last set (within a given grip). If you fail at that point or later, add more weight next workout. If you fail prior to that, you did NOT complete the set, and you should repeat the same weight next time. Of course there are exceptions The worst is failing with a legit 1 second left on that last set. If the timer if ticking over to 7, I might call it a completion, but there are clear times when there is still 1 second left on that damn timer...
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