Sport Climbing and Bouldering

[MarkAnderson]

Russ, that example you linked is perfect! Just like all the V3s at the Buttermilks, LOL

Otis, you make great points. Not all gyms are the same, and I didn't mean to say that all commercial gym setting is bad. My old gym in Ablququerque (Stone Age) had a number of great setters. They also had much more realistic terrain to work with, which helps a lot IMO. They managed to set routes that were fun and cerebral, but also used realistic holds (for the most part) and were never reachy. Their facility produced the likes of Jon Cardwell and Cody Roth.

The grade comments are right on. The same is true of first ascents. If you want your route to be popular, over grade it! I don't think it's helpful to get hung up on the gym grades, but I would appreciate it if setters climbed the problems before grading them, or at least left them ungraded and let the FA offer a grade. This is related to the general problem of not fore-running the problems. I realize there is a time crunch, but good problems usually require some tweaking. It seems the standard process doesn't allow for this (although I know the good setters do take the time to fore-run and tweak when setting for comps). What I see with my eyes is setters wearing tennis shoes, setting the problem from a ladder (or on rappel), and then opening it without ever trying the moves. At that point it's apparently set in stone. ET struggles in these areas, especially on the harder problems, but I've seen it at other gyms as well. If you think you can grade a problem from the ground, you're wrong

[nic]

Earth Treks (at the least the Rockville location) has members grade the routes and boulder problems now. They use charts on a easel board with a range of grades to tick your vote towards. It works great!

As to the original poster. Seems like most people plateau at V5 trying to go to V6 but v4 to V5 can be difficult also. I agree about gyms grades getting harder in the last few years but you said you boulder for maintenance. I wonder is you are not pushing bouldering enough to really see a difference but also maybe its your core? I could see progressing on face climbing routes quite well but not developing the core strength needed for bouldering.

[otis]

Mark,

I completely agree that hard, creative and comp routes should all be forerun, but an experienced route setter can set quality moderate (for them) routes in their approach shoes. I do it all the time. It's a lot quicker and much more comfortable. However, when I set harder routes, creative moves, comp routes, or anything that I am not sure of, I will always forerun them before turning them over to the public. For really hard routes, I kind of aid/forerun the routes to make sure I think they are doable and then grade them 5.1 until one of the kid crushers comes and sends it to give me a more reliable grade.

I think the truly best setters are mindful of their own biases and body type and open to feedback from customers. I'm 6' tall, so when I was learning to set, it was beaten into my head not to set reachy problems. I've seen setters who are a bit shorter than me set really reachy problems, as they think their maximum reach should be everyone elses. I've also known setters who other setters couldn't even make suggestions to, let alone the general climbing public. Their "masterpiece" was set, no matter how awkward that one sequence was or the fact that they have a really awesome sustained 5.11c with a single V8 move to make it 5.13. So I agree, that there is definitely a mix of both good and bad setters in the world.

As for the great grade debate, I've all but given up on that. I definitely think it is similar to the experience of an FA outside. No matter what you grade it, some people will complain.

[jerry]

I will echo everyone else's comments and add a few of my own.

First, I've been to the Bend Rock gym a couple times and the typical terrain is much different than at Smith. There are some exceptions at Smith that are pretty steep and gymnastic, someone mentioned Crack Babies for example. The typical techy, crimpy style at Smith is not popular in gyms.

I suck at gym climbing and my performance in the gym has not improved even though my outdoor performance has greatly improved (thanks in no small part to the RPTM!). My thoughts on this are that typical setters at the gyms near me are 10 or more years younger than I am and way too strong, especially at the typical gymnastic style found in gyms. I really struggle to climb harder than v6 and 5.12a in the gym but outdoors I regularly onsight 12a and have climbed mid 5.13 and v9/10. This boggles the minds of some of my young climbing friends who do the opposite and struggle outside while crushing inside.

[jlarson]

Jun 19, 2015 13:55:24 GMT -7 daustin said:

Good perspective on the customers' attitudes on grades, Otis! One thing that my old gym did that I really actually liked was color-code their grades and grade in ranges: for example, white or yellow = V0-V2/<5.10, green or red = V3-V4/5.11, blue or black = V5-V7/5.12, multi-color=V8+/5.13+

Not that the above color/grading system is the best correlation -- maybe you need more or less tiers depending on your customer base, but I like the general idea of not trying to have gym grading follow outdoor grading on a 1-to-1 level.

This system was used in a guide book for an outdoor bouldering area in Southern California (Black Mountain). I really like it because it's inspired me to assess the problems for myself rather than self limit based on the grades. Apparently the author of the guidebook (local gym owner Ian McIntosh) has also adopted that system in his gym in San Diego.

I've only had a gym membership for a couple of months and I'm trying to maintain the same perspective on gym grades as campus boarding...yes it's fun and yes progressing is cool but my primary goal is to get better climbing outdoors. As long as that's changing each season (and it is) than the gym climbing/campus board is just gravy.

Thanks for chiming in setters and critics! Interesting discussion!