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Post by Dan R. on Apr 8, 2015 18:19:51 GMT -7
I went to the NRG a few months ago, after having my first child, in my worst climbing shape in years, to find friends who also have new families and jobs totally crushing. They attributed their gains, even while diminishing their training, to your book. I'm now in the PE phase, back to fighting weight and stoked. Thanks.
The plan is to peak for two consecutive weekends at the NRG at the end of April to project Slash and Burn, and Pudd's Pretty Dress, then rest a week and start a new cycle to prepare for a last trip before the second child comes--Incredible Hulk, first week in July.
The wild audacious goal is to climb Venturi Effect. How might you tweak and supplement the "trad" cycle for this goal? I live in DC. Outdoor climbing will be limited to a couple random NRG weekends, hopefully one to NH or NC to touch granite. Otherwise just bouldering at gym, hang boarding, trail running. Should I stick to the basic program and focus on getting light, or should I divert some focus to cardio? How would you develop endurance/stamina? I'm also curious about specific training for toe and ankle strength for such long routes on off vertical granite/cracks/epic stemming.
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Post by Dan R. on Apr 10, 2015 17:44:24 GMT -7
As usual, I continue to ruminate. In running there are established correlations between running one distance at a certain time, and the time you would expect to run another distance. I suppose it's similar to how bouldering and route grades relate. What about exercises in the rock prodigy program? Does a certain weight added when hanging from the middle of the small semi closed crimp correlate with a certain red point grade on routes with similar holds? Does a successful PE session on route intervals of a certain grade predict red point ability? More to the point, what do you think are ballpark benchmarks that would suggest success on Venturi Effect--1200' of 11+ and 5.12--is possible?
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Post by jessebruni on Apr 13, 2015 9:13:19 GMT -7
I would think that while there may be some coorelation between hangboard numbers and redpoint grades on routes with similar holds/cruxes there is very little data available to form any sort of program or even much more than a vague idea of what you could potentially climb. I also think that conditions, the technical and mental skills of the athlete, relative size, and a great number of other things would skew that data.
Having said all that, I do like the idea of general benchmarks and I think they may have some use in the setting of lower bounds of ability. I.e. If you can't hang off the thin crimp at bodyweight you probably won't have a shot at Scarface (or something along those lines).
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Post by dryfarmer on Apr 13, 2015 10:39:16 GMT -7
Apologies - thread drift:
This idea of benchmarking has come up in at least a couple threads I've seen lately. It would be amazing if there were a reasonably accurate database of general benchmarks. I agree with Jesse that a key constraint would be the uncontrolled variation in all of the factors associated with the relationship between training performance and rock performance. Still, with enough data the signal might rise above the noise.
Take the 8a database (just for example), and imagine if along with all the sends, people had also logged their training accomplishments at that time. That might be really useful information in terms of helping you identify appropriate projects but also identifying key weaknesses and strengths (e.g., I think there was a recent thread on here where somebody was talking about how they absolutely crush the hangboard but get outclimbed by their friends outside).
With the popularity of standardized training programs and tools (like this one), a database that produced benchmarks might actually be possible. You could even get more climbing-specific benchmarks if lots of people used the same woodie like the Moonboard (or whatever Ben Moon's woodie thing is called, I don't remember).
I would log my data or contribute past data if somebody set something up. Even just getting to look at the data contributed by the handful or so of regular posters of this forum who have been recording their own data over a number of seasons would be interesting.
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Post by MPE on May 13, 2015 10:30:02 GMT -7
My thoughts... If your goal is the Venturi Effect, most of the climbing is thin crack climbing with some face holds. Though I have not been on the Venturi Effect, I have rappelled down it (after climbing Positive Vibes) and looked at it. The Hulk has relatively little wide climbing even if you are going for a different route. I don't know what your crack climbing experience is like but if you are projecting some sport routes at the new, maybe after you either send your project or give it a few goes, you should get on some similar crack climbs. I can't really think of a 5.12+ corner at the new similar to the crux on Venturi Effect. But others that come to mind that are in the finger/hand size and are relatively difficult are Agent Orange, Leave it to Jesus, New Traditionalist (name?), The Beckoning.
If you are looking to get some time on granite, Looking Glass NC is the place to go. The glass menagerie is similar in grade to the Venturi Effect and also refreshes multi pitch trad climbing systems, etc. I've never climbed in New Hampshire so I couldn't tell you about that.
Otherwise to train for the hulk you should prepare for the hike. Though pretty average length by Sierra standards, you will probably be sucking wind if coming from DC. Also to keep your feet from getting too tired, get a super stiff pair of shoes like TC Pros or Anasazi Blancos. If you decide you aren't ready for the Venturi Effect, other routes that are classic and a bit easier include Tradewinds, Sunspot Dihedral, and Positive Vibrations.
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Post by Dan R. on Jun 9, 2015 14:27:20 GMT -7
MPE, my thoughts are in line with yours. I've done Agent Orange, and the Beckoning. Both are excellent. I've been wanting to get on Leave It to Jesus, New Traditionalist, and Finger Crack in White Corner, but I keep getting shut down by rain on the few weekends I have on the calendar between having a kid, having a kid on the way, and having a life on the other side...
Despite rain constraints on my outdoor weekends, I laid down a solid month of strength work with 9 hangboard sessions, dropped more weight (20 lbs in 4 months), and am now finishing up an abridged power phase of boulder ladders, and limit bouldering. I have been ARCing the day after high intensity sessions throughout.
I have three weeks left and could use some advice. According to the Climbing Manual I should be working PE in the form of route intervals. My problem is that I'm only able to sneak out to the gym during the middle of the day around lunch time without a set schedule, so no partner. Should I do linked boulder problems, or is that not even the type of fitness necessary on such granite? Maybe I should do constant intensity repetitions on boulders and increase ARCing intensity.
Side-note, I avoided running and cardio over the last few months with the idea of losing leg mass and really focusing on upper body/finger strength. I am now starting to add supplemental leg exercises and cardio to my ARC day to prep for that Sierra approach.
Thoughts?
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Post by gargano on Jun 11, 2015 19:19:48 GMT -7
Hey Dan. We climbed the first 8 pitches of Venturi last June. It's a great route. You'll certainly enjoy it.
This route reminded me how important legs are for missions in the Sierra. There's some legit stemming up there and the approach and elevation definitely add up. The route is consistent and it helps to be in good cardio shape with solid legs and some all-day work capacity.
From memory, most of the cruxes were short. A few hard moves, followed by continuous movement over sustained, but easier ground. Power will be helpful, but overall endurance and ability to hang in there is critical. If you think you've got a solid power base, I'd start working on legs, cardio and work capacity - while still doing some linked-bouldering to keep the power up.
Feel free to PM me if you want any more info.
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Post by Lundy on Jun 17, 2015 19:13:49 GMT -7
Hey Dan! First, our second is due literally any day now, but after she arrives let's get a session or two in on my home wall. I now have a sweet campus board as well, so you need to come by.
Did you get Slash and Burn this spring? Amazing line.
Regarding the training for Venturi, I would love to hear Mark chime in, as the description of the route above doesn't sound like PE to me, but rather ARCing with distinct cruxes. In my mind, PE is like 25-30 hard moves, not multiple pitches of sustained 5.11. With this understanding, I'd be ARCing incessantly and still building the strength and power. But again, what on earth do I know. Mark???
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