Effectiveness of training slopers on Hangboard

[sillygoose]

Has anyone experienced any significant gains training slopers as part of the hangboard routine? I am currently in my second cycle and am considering dumping the sloper sets and replacing them with a different grip position. I feel success in doing the sets are way too friction dependent (I think this was also mentioned in the book) and seem to vary greatly independent of how I am doing on the other grip positions. I want to get stronger at slopers but feel that hangboard training might not be the best way to go for this particular grip.

I have been using the medium slopers on the Beastmaker 2000 for the record.

[ken]

I have a question that I'll piggyback on this thread since I think it is related:

How much effect do conditions and friction have on the actual effectiveness of your training?

Surely the conditions will impact the numbers you end up logging in your spreadsheet, but if the numbers aren't increasing, does it mean you are wasting your time?

I would guess that it doesn't other than introducing variance when it comes to hanging the optimal amount of weight. As long as you are getting in the appropriate amount of work or close to it, I would think you are still prompting a training response in your body even if the numbers don't clearly reflect it.

This brings up another question, though: Is it worth it to religiously clean your hangboard? The pockets I haven't trained on feel amazingly grippy compared to the ones I do train on. It seems like when I move to a new grip (RPTC) the friction I get is amazing at first, but it quickly declines within the first cycle then seems to stay consistent. I see it as a handicap being removed but not really adversely impacting my ability to progressively strengthen my fingers on the grip. Or am I wrong?

[ken]

And to respond to the OP, I think that you should stick with the sloper especially if you want to get better at slopers. I would guess that any method for training sloper strength will be conditions dependent.

Purely anecdotal, but I felt the same way about the pinches (RPTC) at first: It felt like I just kept sliding off at the same weights over and over for 3-4 cycles and could not break the plateau. The last few cycles through the winter and into spring (cooler and lower humidity), though, I have made big improvements in the medium and wide pinches. Without having the numbers in front of me, I think I'm up by close to 30 lb since September and keep surprising myself by bumping 2.5 lb after just barely succeeding on the previous workout.

I wouldn't be surprised if I plateau on the pinches and sloper again through the summer, but I'll be hoping to make a jump again when conditions improve.

[jessebruni]

My experience with the slopers was that pure deadhanging was close to useless because of how condition dependent the slopers actually are, but if you engage and actively bear down on the slopers (not locked off or anything but not pure deadhanging either) then they become less condition dependent. This obviously wears you out so I do my slopers as a last set. I think that overall forearm strength increases from doing sloper sets so like them quite a bit. I've also noticed that whenever I feel like I'm slipping because of conditions after a minute of rest (conditions haven't changed) I can hang on them again, so it's not entirely conditions. It's conditions + strength. If you're failing it's not just because of conditions, but because you're not strong enough to hang on in the current conditions. Either way, you should be getting stronger.

[sillygoose]

Thanks for your replies. I´ll stick with it for the season and see how things pan out.

Jesse, you mentioned that you do slopers late in your workout. I have been doing the slopers as the first set, my thinking being that I´d be fresher. Anyone have any thougths on wether it is better doing the more strenous grips early on or later in the workout?

[jessebruni]

I think that the general advice is put whatever grip you want to improve the most at the beginning of your workout. So if slopers are high priority for you then do them first, if not, move em down the list.

[MarkAnderson]

Apr 6, 2015 8:36:15 GMT -7 ken said:

How much effect do conditions and friction have on the actual effectiveness of your training?

Great question, and I think you have the right answer.  That said, your perception of your own success/failure can also have an impact on the effectiveness of your training, in that when you think you're doing well, you might be inclined to try harder on successive efforts (and vv).  Ideally you could strive for consistent conditions, even if they are far from ideal.  That would provide a repeatable training log and a fair picture of your performance. 

Another factor that you touch on is Time Under Tension (TUT).  If you find yourself training in conditions so unusually terrible that you are consistently abandoning sets early, the total volume of work performed will be less, and that could have an actual impact.

I've never "cleaned" a hangboard, but I obsessively brush it.  Whenever I replace a hangboard I'm amazed by the accumulation of chalk.  Apparently vigorous brushing is not nearly as useful as we think it is.  I know of people who use wire brushes on their boards.  I've been told a copper brush can be used to restore texture to polished plastic holds.  I don't.  I realize the holds are probably getting more slick over time, and I'm fine with that.  If I thought they were gradually getting more texture, I would be concerned. 

[MarkAnderson]

Apr 6, 2015 10:50:22 GMT -7 sillygoose said:

Anyone have any thougths on wether it is better doing the more strenous grips early on or later in the workout?

Jesse's point is correct, strive to do your most "important" grips early in the workout. 

Another factor to consider is that some grips are just pumpier than others, perhaps because they utilize a larger number of muscle fibers, and so restrict blood flow to a larger extent.  For example, the pinch grip, and any grip that uses all four fingers, like slopers.  I like to train such grips near the end to the extent practical, because I don't want to get super pumped right out of the gate.  So I still do my pinch last, even though it's probably not my least important grip any more.

[climber511]

Take it down - wash with soap and water - use a brush on it - rinse it well with a pressure spray - hang it back up - good to go.

[nabis]

AAAAAH, someone has the same problem as me!

I'm also using the Beastmaker 2000 and the medium slopers and so far I've made no gains on this grip, even after 20 sessions.

I've noticed that the friction depends on moisture on the grip. I guess this is specific to the wooden nature of the Beastmaker. If it gets too dry at the later reps I just slip of the grip without actually failing and brushing the hold with chalk makes it worse.

For my next session I want to experiment with a moist towl for a quick pad during the 3s pause. This is all based on the observation that I saw someone licking their hands prior to holding the hard sloper on the Beastmaker. I hope it helped with the friction and wasn't just for good luck .

[sorvad]

Here's an article about progressing to 45 slopers on the beastmaker. Very different from the rock prodigy program, but maybe the rock prodigy way isnt the way to progress slopers

Edit: ofc i forgot the link: upskillclimbing.blogspot.dk/2012/01/mere-mortals-guide-to-beasting.html?m=1

[MarkAnderson]

Sept 3, 2015 4:56:44 GMT -7 nabis said:

I saw someone licking their hands prior to holding the hard sloper on the Beastmaker.

Another good reason to wash your hands regularly, especially after touching anything in a public climbing gym

[tedwelser]

It seems possible that the geometry of a sloper could impact the best training protocol. In addition to the RPTC sloper I use a 7 inch diameter half cylinder for sloper training. I find that both slopers are extremely sensitive to fatigue across multiple repetitions. This makes sense to the extent that holding capacity on a sloper depends on effort at more than one joint and across multiple finger pads. The traction of each pad is contributing to the holding power of the others, and if one gives out slightly, movement on the grip reduces the leverage advantage of all, and leads to a vicious cycle. Similarly, on the next rep, an earlier fatigue of any one part increases the load on the others and destabilizes the traction of all. If the goal is to keep a consistent TUT across reps in a set, training a sloper (especially a curved one) ought to diminish the weight load across reps to maintain the TUT while keeping effort high.

Early failure of the grip could be one source of the apparent lack of progress.  But cutting weight like dropping sandbags from a hot air balloon could preserve the TUT benefits.

[nabis]

Today was another hangboard session and I tried a few new things.

1. There was a document available on the Beastmaker website stating that 120 aluminum oxid sand paper is used in making of the Beastmaker. Luckily, it's the same I use on my fingers during the rest phases of hangboarding . So, I took it to the grips and smoothed them, focussing on the edges. This resulted in a lot less skin irritation and less pain.

This may not directly help you, but the hangboard in my gym is old and worn. It even got on TV once . It is so famous that I'm afraid it is landmarked.


2. I finally used a proper pulley with a ball bearing. I used to use an Edelrid Turn and it does not have a ball bearing. This means, it does not transfer the weight very accurately. Anything more than 20 lbs resulted in so much friction in the bearing that the weight was meaningless.

This is huge point for me and I want to advise everyone to get a proper pulley with a ball bearing. Mine costs 15 Euro from ebay and came without a case. For now I use an M10 thread with two screw nuts to keep the pulley in the middle and suspend it from two slings.

Using a proper pulley feels awesome .


3. Prior to hanging from the slopers I soaked my hands for two minutes using a wet towel. This softened my skin and I think it makes a differences. I succeded with same weight from the previous session, where I failed 2 reps early. This could also be the result of the sand paper and the new pulley.

I initially planned to wet my hands during the 3s rests, but this is not nearly enough time to wet them, dry them and chalk up again.


It feels very elaborate to intially sand paper your hands during the first grips and then soak them for the last grip, the slopers.

[jlarson]

nabis-

Having moist hands actually helps to improve friction? Is that specific to wooden hangboards like the beastmaker? I'm very skeptical that that would improve friction on a plastic hangboard such as the RPTC.