Using Hangboard for Power Training During Ankle Injury

[robdebruyn]

My girlfriend sustained a really nasty ankle sprain while jumping down from the top of a boulder problem in the gym, landing with her ankle between two mats. This was nearly 5 weeks ago. The healing has been going very slowly, and she will be in a walking boot for at least the next 3 weeks. I imagine even after it comes out of the boot, it'll be some time before it is strong enough to safely come off of a limit boulder problem or campus board, even if she stays close to the ground.

In the power chapter of the book there is a small section on using the hang board for max recruitment, but it warns climbers not to implement it unless they are very strong (I think I remember reading 5.13+ as a benchmark). Before her injury, my girlfriend was climbing around V4 and mid 5.11.

My question is, if she keeps the weight appropriate and use two-handed hangs instead of one-handed hangs, is there a reason that using the protocol laid out in the book would be particularly dangerous? I read slimshaky's post in the thread titled "Interested in Mark's Opinion on this Training Program", in which he detailed a time period of 6 months where he alternated between a protocol on the hang board geared toward strength and one geared toward max recruitment. From what I can remember off the top of my head, he said that he was climbing around 5.12a at the time, and it sounded like he achieved satisfactory results during that time. 

I understand that this would be far less optimal than campusing or limit bouldering because it has no movement aspect to it, but would using the hang board for power be better than nothing? 

[MarkAnderson]

Rob,

I think it would be fine. The warning about "strong climbers only" was given more for the purpose of emphasizing the importance of incorporating technical skills and dynamic movement in power training, especially for less-skilled climbers. The assumption is that anyone climbing at that level is already quite skilled, knows how to climb dynamically, and is struggling to eke out the absolute maximum strength from their fingers. If you have no other options for power training, the hangboard is certainly better than nothing.

That said, if it's going to be many weeks until she can climb, it's worth considering the value of Max R Training. I'm not saying there is no value, but if you knew today that should wouldn't touch rock again for two months from the time she started Max R Training, I would guess that any benefits from that training would have largely faded by that time. It might be better to rest for a while and then start a new training cycle designed to create a peak that coincides with the likely time her ankle will be healthy.  Her recovery timeline could be much faster than two months though.

I suffered that exact injury/cause in the spring of 2001 while I was training for Denali.  It really sucked.  I was sure I broke my ankle, but X-rays were negative.  I was on crutches for a week.  In retrospect a walking boot probably would've been smart. 

[robdebruyn]

Thanks for the clarification. I kind of figured the warning was mostly due to the need less experienced climbers to develop the movement skill and willingness to climb dynamically.

The scheduling piece is a good point, and something I had considered. She isn't due for a power phase yet, I was just looking down the road and thinking about what might be the best option for her if she isn't feeling confident enough to jump down from the campus wall or boulder when the time comes. We are trying to schedule around a week in April that we were planning on spending at RRG, NRG, or Rumney, depending on which forecast looks best. Unfortunately, we can't change the dates of the trip, since I'm a teacher and my vacation time is decided by the school board and superintendent. The trip is 14 weeks away, and maybe you can offer up some advice on the best way for her to train given her condition and your experience with the same thing. (Totally sucks!)

Normally, this would be a perfect time for her to start a macrocycle (4 weeks Base Fitness, 4 weeks hang boarding, 3 weeks power, 3 weeks PE). However, given her condition, I don't think she will be able to complete the ARC phase, so the question becomes what to do with the 4 weeks that would be base fitness. She hasn't climbed in 5 weeks, and I think the only things she feels safe doing is hang boarding and other controlled full body strength exercises. My thought is that in these 4 weeks, she should do some light hang boarding using the Beginner protocol as well as full body strength exercises for 3 weeks, then take one week off before starting the macrocycle as planned from the hang boarding phase. My thought is that the 3 weeks would help her forearms and fingers to "remember" the strength they had before the 5 week hiatus, then a week to reset before a the planned HB cycle.

My concern is that it might be too much HB training and that she will stop seeing gains before the end of it. Do you have any thoughts on trying something like this?

[MarkAnderson]

Jan 12, 2015 13:47:28 GMT -7 robdebruyn said:

Thanks for the clarification. I kind of figured the warning was mostly due to the need less experienced climbers to develop the movement skill and willingness to climb dynamically.

The scheduling piece is a good point, and something I had considered. She isn't due for a power phase yet, I was just looking down the road and thinking about what might be the best option for her if she isn't feeling confident enough to jump down from the campus wall or boulder when the time comes. We are trying to schedule around a week in April that we were planning on spending at RRG, NRG, or Rumney, depending on which forecast looks best. Unfortunately, we can't change the dates of the trip, since I'm a teacher and my vacation time is decided by the school board and superintendent. The trip is 14 weeks away, and maybe you can offer up some advice on the best way for her to train given her condition and your experience with the same thing. (Totally sucks!)

Normally, this would be a perfect time for her to start a macrocycle (4 weeks Base Fitness, 4 weeks hang boarding, 3 weeks power, 3 weeks PE). However, given her condition, I don't think she will be able to complete the ARC phase, so the question becomes what to do with the 4 weeks that would be base fitness. She hasn't climbed in 5 weeks, and I think the only things she feels safe doing is hang boarding and other controlled full body strength exercises. My thought is that in these 4 weeks, she should do some light hang boarding using the Beginner protocol as well as full body strength exercises for 3 weeks, then take one week off before starting the macrocycle as planned from the hang boarding phase. My thought is that the 3 weeks would help her forearms and fingers to "remember" the strength they had before the 5 week hiatus, then a week to reset before a the planned HB cycle.

My concern is that it might be too much HB training and that she will stop seeing gains before the end of it. Do you have any thoughts on trying something like this?

Well, it is possible to ARC on a hangboard.  She won't get any of the skill development benefits, but physically there would be little difference.  That said, it would be really boring!  Given the time frame, my big fear would be more that she would burn out mentally as opposed to physically plateauing.  I've done HB -> Rest -> HB -> Rest -> HB -> normal cycle before, but I really like hangboarding.  In some ways I like it more than climbing. 

My mental disorders aside, if she is up for it, I like your idea of a low-intensity HB phase using the Beginner protocol.  It would be a good compromise between HB ARCing and HB Strength training.  I would think the sessions would be really mellow, which might spare her some of the mental fatigue that usually accompanies intense HBing.  Switching timing protocols when she enters the Strength Phase should be enough of a shock to keep her from plateauing.  The Beginner workout is definitely much more of an endurance workout that the int/adv protocols. 

With the amount of time you have I think she has a great chance to be completely healed, but she should still be careful about swinging into the rock on lead falls.  When I had that injury, hyper-extending the joint in the toes-pointed-up direction (flexing the ankle extensors) was extremely painful and seemed to make matters a lot worse.  I would stick to steeper routes and give some extra slack to keep her from swinging back in too hard.  NRG may not be the best choice, depending on the specific crag.

[Chris W]

A walking boot for 3 more weeks? She's already 5 weeks into the injury? Something doesn't quite sound right; was it a grade III sprain? Is she doing any PT?

[robdebruyn]

Jan 12, 2015 15:52:31 GMT -7 MarkAnderson said:

With the amount of time you have I think she has a great chance to be completely healed, but she should still be careful about swinging into the rock on lead falls.  When I had that injury, hyper-extending the joint in the toes-pointed-up direction (flexing the ankle extensors) was extremely painful and seemed to make matters a lot worse.  I would stick to steeper routes and give some extra slack to keep her from swinging back in too hard.  NRG may not be the best choice, depending on the specific crag.

That motion of pointing the toes up is exactly what's most difficult/painful for her now. She'll definitely be erring on the side of caution for a while. We'll be searching for steep routes and she's not too proud to resort to top-roping if there's a climb she wants to get on that looks potentially harmful in the case of a lead fall. 

Thanks for the feedback on the plan. I had considered the possibility of ARCing on the HB, but I thought I would spare her that torture! 

[robdebruyn]

Jan 12, 2015 21:21:10 GMT -7 Chris W said:

A walking boot for 3 more weeks? She's already 5 weeks into the injury? Something doesn't quite sound right; was it a grade III sprain? Is she doing any PT?

No PT yet. The NP she saw told her that a physical therapist wouldn't touch her with the extremely limited range of motion she has at this point. 

She had the sprain, and went to urgent care, at which point they put her on crutches and told her to start walking on it when she was able. Same as Mark, we were sure she had broken it, but nothing showed up on the X-ray. After two weeks without being able to weight the foot at all, she went to the orthopedist where she was seen by an NP. The NP told her to wear the boot for 6 weeks, then to come back in for a followup appointment at which point she would be prescribed physical therapy if the healing was going according to plan. I don't think there was any mention of the grade of the sprain, and there was no mention of surgery. 

[Chris W]

You can see 10 different doctors for the same thing, get 10 different answers, and not one of them is necessarily wrong or bad. Granted, I haven't seen or examined her and I don't know the exact nature of her injury [which gets a bit technical], but I tend to be a BIG proponent of early mobilization and early physical therapy. It may be worth talking to your ortho doc about these options or, if your state has open access, seeing a PT directly. If you see an NP, you can always ask to speak with the doc.

[robdebruyn]

Thanks for the concern, Chris.

Right now, she can barely get her foot flat on the floor, although maybe her lack of mobility is because she isn't actively trying to improve it with specific PT exercises... Without the boot, the foot is pretty useless. She can walk around the house without the boot, but the only way she is able to do that is by walking up on the ball of her foot, and can't walk at all with the usual heel-toe gait. Maybe I'll suggest she go back to talk to the ortho and see if he agrees with the course of action laid out by the NP. I think it's frustrating for her not to be able to actively to improve the situation.

[Chris W]

There are few things that I find more frustrating than being sick or injured. I hope she is able to get moving well again soon. If she is instructed to do any stretching or mobility exercises, make sure they aren't done with cold muscles. Good luck to her.

[tedwelser]

To support Chris' comment about the benefit of using a sprained ankle instead of immobilizing it: I suffered severe sprains of left and right ankle. Left was first and I rested it extensively. Recovery was much longer and incomplete (loss of range of motion, strength, balance). Right was second and I started using it after 1 day of rest and ice; then I wrapped it, used it and iced it. I wish I would have treated the first like I had the second, but I did not know better.

I would look for a sports doctor to get a different perspective. Both of my sprains were severe and ankles were super swollen and purple.

[jorgemendoza]

Jan 12, 2015 15:52:31 GMT -7 MarkAnderson said:

Jan 12, 2015 13:47:28 GMT -7 robdebruyn said:

I have an ankle injury, and I will finish my HB cycle in 1.5 weeks. My ankle will not be fully recovered by the end of my HB cycle. I had the idea that in order to maximize the gains of a HB cycle, a power cycle has to come after it, right?

I have at my disposal a 45 degree wall with system holds (it is like 6-foot tall, hence, no big falls). I can create some limit bouldering problems here (2-3 moves), and that would be the extend of my power phase. Now, my question is, would you recommend do the limit bouldering on the system board, or just rest and do another HB cycle as you have previously done?

[sr]

A few years ago, due to a hard catch,  I suffered a lisfranc fracture/dislocation. Needed surgery to repair with pins/screws, 11 weeks in boot and another surgery to remove some of the pins that dislodged.   During this time, I top-roped, did pull-ups, and hang-boarding. Basically a base fitness routine for 7 weeks (I didn't climb for the first 4 weeks).

IThe TRing taught me a ton about movement and flagging since I was only climbing with one foot. The pull-ups (being a female) were a huge benefit.  Three months after the 2nd surgery I did my hardest RP at that time. Also, I had a similar experience as Mark with lead falls. My foot was incapable of absorbing any type of shock for about 2 years (this was about the same amt of time before I could run again), so  my belayer had to provide very soft catches.

[jorgemendoza]

I meant to quote Mark in my previous post. It is pretty clear that I don't know how to use the quoting tool

"I've done HB -> Rest -> HB -> Rest -> HB -> normal cycle before, but I really like hangboarding. In some ways I like it more than climbing. "

sr, I am glad you are better now. Your injury is way more serious than my sprained ankle. My sprained ankle is a boo-boo next to your injury. I will do the one-footed TRing. I hope to be back in a month, and perhaps bouldering in 2 months. I don't do much ropes to be honest, but it seems like this summer is going to be different. Thanks for sharing.

[MarkAnderson]

If you aren't intending to follow up your Power Phase with a Performance Phase, I would just skip it this time around. It's not worth the risk of re-injuring your ankle for some marginal-at-best limit bouldering. Summer is here, there's a whole world out there Go biking or something for a few weeks and then start back up in time to peak when you're healed.