Joint angle for semi-closed crimp, pics in book reversed?

[Mike]

Hi all,
   This question seems to open up a can of worms on other forums I've seen it on, but I am confused about the book's (RCTM's) intentions in regard to the "semi-closed edge" in the hangboard routine.  I'm in the middle of my first strength phase, so I'm new to hangboarding.  I've got the Rock Prodigy Training Center.  

My question is: what grip position exactly is meant by "small/medium semi-closed edge"?  My understanding was that full crimp means the 2nd knuckles of the fingers are above the first knuckles/finger pads, semi-closed (half-crimp) means the 2nd knuckles of the fingers are at roughly a  90 degree angle and therefore even with the first/pads, and open means the 2nd knuckles are below the first knuckles/pads.  This is consistent with the grip position pics on page 55.  But in the pics on page 115 of the book, this looks reversed: the "large edge" picture looks to me like a half crimp, while the "small semi-closed edge" pic looks open.  Which is right, and which one is meant to be trained in the hangboard routines prescribed in the book?

Also, when trying to train the half crimp, I've found that with enough resistance, I don't fail completely, I first lose the half crimp position and end up in an open hand position.  IN other words, I cannot maintain the 90 degree joint angle, but this happens prior to muscle failure.  If this is happening, should I decrease resistance to whatever would allow me to maintain the proper half crimp for 6 reps, or is this fine?  

Any feedback would be appreciated, thanks!

[MarkAnderson]

Mike,

Yes it is a can of worms. Regarding the pictures, all I can say is that our hand model, while smoking hot and crazy strong, has weirdly shaped hands

Anyway, here is what I mean by "semi-closed crimp": the Index and Pinky fingers flex at the DIP joint, and are more or less straight at the PIP joint. The Middle and Ring fingers flex at the PIP joint and are more or less straight at the DIP joint. The angle of flexion will depend on the size of your fingers relative to each other. I have pretty short and stubby fingers, and when I use this grip my MR PIP joints are flexed at ~105 degrees, and the MR distal and middle phalanx's are nearly horizontal.

As for the Large Edge, ideally you would train this in as close to an open grip position as possible (which is basically what a semi-closed crimp is, when used on a flat edge). However, if the edge is large enough (deeper than first pad), you won't be able to use that position, because your I and/or P fingers won't be able to flex at the DIP joint. When I'm training a large edge, my M and R are position as for a semi-closed crimp. My I flexes slightly at the DIP, and about twice as much (in terms of joint angle) at the PIP. I line up my P so that it can flex at the DIP (and keep it straight at the PIP). This usually means my P is not pushed into the back of the hold, rather I line it up so the edge of the hold is right where the first and second pads meet.

Surely this will clear everything up
Mark

[Mike]

Actually, that does clear it up since my fingers line up exactly the way you're describing that yours do, so that helps. I think the confusion must stem from people's fingers being different lengths relative to each other...so a half-crimp for one person might look different from a half-crimp for another person. Either way, sounds like the way I've been doing it is ok then. Thanks Mark!