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Post by gargano on Sept 30, 2014 13:10:51 GMT -7
How much weight are you all adding to a given grip before decreasing the grip size?
In other words, what do you consider max weight for a given grip?
I'm getting to the point of adding 40#, in the second set, for certain grips and am still making finger strength progress; however, I'm feeling more strain in the upper arms, shoulders, and across my upper back.
Is there a benefit to upping the weight into the 45+ range for a grip? Or do you think there would be more benefit from just decreasing the size of the grip?
Thanks!
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Post by tedwelser on Sept 30, 2014 22:31:31 GMT -7
I don't really know what the best answer is. Eva Lopez is a big advocate of high weight before reducing the size of the grip. But I don't really feel like adding more than 65 pounds-- a harness does not fit well with a ton of weight on it.
The RCTM protocal seems to suggest going to smaller holds earlier, but the earlier blog entries for RCTM focus on specificity to your goals with steeper areas like the Red or Rifle tending to favor higher weight and more face climbing areas like Smith or Shelf favoring smaller holds.
I am climbing at the Red and New this season so I went with higher weight in my recent strength cycle for the steepness factor. My open hand 3 or more finger grips were about as high as I wanted to go. But next time I am planning to do subtracted weight while working on my open hand grip with pockets. I find that my pinky and ring finger do not develop that well when used with the other fingers on open hand, so I am isolating the RP two fingers and index and middle monos (while taking a bunch of weight off). For semi crimps I am still adding weight with the focus of working towards plus 50 on the small campus rung and plus 40 on the small sliding edge on the climbing prodigy.
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Post by slimshaky on Oct 1, 2014 8:29:33 GMT -7
i don't like adding more than 40 lbs, really hard on my shoulders. i try to set my grips up to be in the -20 to +20 range, give or take. most important though is to try to target holds and sizes that you are going to encounter on the routes you are doing.
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Post by gargano on Oct 1, 2014 9:27:49 GMT -7
Thanks for the responses.
I hear the feedback regarding target holds. It makes sense that a conversation about max rep weight can't be had without looking at hold type and size selection. Most of my goal routes are on thin and technical terrain, so I'll probably listen to my body and keep things @ 40# max.
Perhaps I can take this opportunity to get some feedback on the HB routine.
I've done several short (<6 session) HB seasons over the past couple of years. Since going back to school and adopting a more regimented daily schedule, I finally decided to work through my first complete RCTM season. I went with the Intermediate HB Routine (listed at the top of page 117) to experience a full HB session working through a range of holds. It feels like a good general selection of holds that focus on a little bit of everything. I'm making progress and feeling good so far (HB session #6).
1. Warm-up Jug
2. Large Open-Hand Edge
3. Small Semi-Closed Edge
4. MR 2F Pocket
5. IMR 3F Pocket
6. Wide Pinch
7. Sloper
That being said, it doesn't necessarily feel like the selection is specifically tailored to the type of routes that I'm going for this year. I also don't have a lot of experience matching holds to particular routes. My goal routes are The North Face of Monkey's Face at Smith, Original Route on Rainbow Wall at Red Rock (looking for an autumn partner on this one if anyone is interested!), and a variety of single and multi-pitch routes in the Valley (Crimson Cringe, Fish Crack, Astroman, Scarface & Unemployment Line). Overall, more thin technical climbing than steep and juggy routes.
Given that info, what do you guys think about the HB hold selection?
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Post by tedwelser on Oct 1, 2014 13:54:48 GMT -7
If you break down how your knuckles are positioned on those grips it seems like all of them are open hand except for the small edge semi crimp.
But it is the small edge semi crimp that will be most directly useful on crimpy routes.
At the very least I would add a second semi crimp edge. I use the small metolius campus rung, but you could just use two different positions on the adjustable small edge.
I don't use the sloper-- I feel like the sloper and the wide pinch are functionally pretty similar, although the pinch has the benefit of engaging your thumb.
Finally, one reason I like to do some of my hanging workouts on the small campus rung is that it is directly specific to the strength I need for campusing. I got up to +40 pounds for single rep 10 second hangs on the campus board and that was really just barely enough strength to use the campus board effectively this season.
Next season I am going to do weighted repeaters on the campus rung because I think that will be even more specific and allow me to prepare better for campusing.
Finally, depending on the relative length of your fingers to each other you may find that your pinky and ring finger are underdeveloped with that array of holds.
I only have anecdotal insights on this, but I feel as though my pinky finger is underdeveloped because I have concentrated on so many open hand grips and that when I us crimps it sometimes feels overloaded, perhaps because it gets to be lazy so often on other grips.
In order to avoid a tweaky feelings in my pinkies (while semi crimping or when crimping on route holds) I am trying strengthen it gently with some two fingers using my RP pair (with a lot of weight taken off initially). I find that my RP pair is about as strong as my I and M monos (basically negative 80 pounds or so). That is nice because I don't have to change the weights as often.
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Post by gargano on Oct 2, 2014 9:39:12 GMT -7
I've been thinking about the open-hand vs. half crimp training balance. An open-hand grip is useful for holding on and pulling up to shoulder-level. Past shoulder-level you lose leverage with an open-hand grip at which point you would move to a half/full crimp. I usually default to a half/full crimp while climbing, so it makes sense to train that grip in more variations during a HB phase.
Additionally, I have found that my index finger is relatively weak due to full-crimping. With the thumb wrapped around the index finger to provide support, the index finger is never exposed to the same loads as the middle or ring fingers. This weakness is further exacerbated by hand geometry; when using the small semi-closed edge and IMR pocket my index finger is fully extended and carries a small portion of the load.
Given these points, I think I'll change the routine in three ways:
1. Use the Large Open-Hand Edge as a warm-up, since I feel as strong on this hold as the Warm-Up Jug.
2. Add another series of Semi-Closed sets at a different position along the Small Edge.
3. Change the IMR 3F Pocket to a IR 2F Pocket to focus more on the index finger.
I hesitate to start specifically training the pinkie finger, although I know it needs it. Maybe a MRP 3F Pocket would be a good way to start?
I hear your point regarding training on the campus rung to build specificity for the Power Phase. This will be my first time using the campus board, so I'll probably be starting slow enough (Large holds and moving to Medium is all goes well) to not need that additional focus.
So the workout should look like this:
1. Large Open-Hand Edge
2. Small Semi-Closed Edge
3. IM 2F Pocket
4. Small Semi-Closed Edge
5. MR 2F Pocket
6. Wide Pinch
7. Medium Pinch/Sloper
Thoughts?
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Post by RyanJohnson on Oct 2, 2014 10:46:16 GMT -7
Just to echo what others have said in this thread, I've yet to add more than 50 lbs to any grip position/hold due to how uncomfortable it is to hang that much weight off the harness.
As I continue to work on small open-hand hangs, it gets easier and easier to hold that grip position during lock-offs below the shoulder. And as for full crimping, I've always followed the Dave Macleod line of advice suggesting to not train that grip position. With as much full crimping as I do out on the rock, it makes senses for me to not stress it even more during a hangboard phase. Weaning myself off full crimping in favor of open-hand or half crimping has made me a stronger climber on thin technical face climbs.
Until recently, I would use a small and large campus rung and a few shims for the majority of my hangboard workout. Usually the majority of the following:
1. 1/2in (I,M,R,P) Half-Crimp Edge
2. 3/4in (I,M) Open-Hand Edge
3. 3/4in (I,M,R,P) Open-Hand Edge
4. 3/4in (I,M,R,P) Half-Crimp Edge
5. 3/4in (M,R,P) Half-Crimp Edge
6. 1 in (I,M,R) Half-Crimp Edge
7. 1 1/4in (I,M,R,P) Open-Hand Edge
I prefer the wood to other hangboards I've tried in the past. Then again, the gym I climb has installed the RPTC board about a month ago, and I'm planning on using the VDR, tiny crimp, and pinches next hangboard cycle.
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Post by tedwelser on Oct 2, 2014 18:41:58 GMT -7
"So the workout should look like this: 1. Large Open-Hand Edge 2. Small Semi-Closed Edge 3. IM 2F Pocket 4. Small Semi-Closed Edge 5. MR 2F Pocket 6. Wide Pinch 7. Medium Pinch/Sloper Thoughts?" Seems good! MRP can be a good way to go-- but it depends on the lengths of your fingers. For me, my pinky ends at the last knuckle of my middle finger, so it is hard to engage it when the middle is involved in an open grip unless the grip is large. The best solution I have found is to use just RP on the curved jug hold, which lets me use moderate weight and I really feel as though both fingers are contributing well. I wish there was a version of the IMR pocket in reverse order, it seems like doing RP in that would work really well with that set up. also, I really like the depths and shape of the IMR pocket. It feels the best for any combination of IMR for heavier weights, perhaps it is the extra depth combined with the comfy angle. Anyways, the multiple depths on the IMR is along with the pinch and the two piece set up are my favorite aspects of the prodigy board. |
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Post by MarkAnderson on Oct 9, 2014 13:35:55 GMT -7
Have you tried mounting the halves 'inside out'? You would need a French Cleat or other adjustable/removable mounting system to do this. I messed around with an inside out arangement one day but I couldn't think of any practical application. This might be one.
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Post by tedwelser on Oct 10, 2014 9:00:36 GMT -7
Have you tried mounting the halves 'inside out'? You would need a French Cleat or other adjustable/removable mounting system to do this. I messed around with an inside out arangement one day but I couldn't think of any practical application. This might be one. That is a good suggestion. Currently I have my board in a fixed mount at one end of our bouldering room. Where it is now I cannot easily include a French Cleat, but depending on how things go I may end up extending the training space in the lower half of the garage, and will hang the board sections there using a French Cleat. For now I have been exploring the use of the edge of the jug grip for RP hangs, and I feel like it works pretty well. The curve of the jug grip supports both fingers well and I feel as though I can load them both safely. |
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