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Post by markdixon on Jun 20, 2014 7:39:10 GMT -7
Does anyone have suggestions about how to adjust the weight when moving from the beginner, one set hangboard routines to the intermediate two set routines and then on to the advanced three set routines?
For example, if I take off 20 pounds on the first set for one grip and 10 pounds off on the second set, in an intermediate routine, would I just add a preliminary set with 30 pounds off to move up to the advanced routine? And then adjust as tolerated?
Mostly looking for an idea where to start a new cycle I guess, since after that it's a matter of fine tuning the weights.
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Post by slimshaky on Jun 23, 2014 10:49:19 GMT -7
here is a long winded response, but if you want my final suggestion just scroll to the bottom.
this is a really good question. i have always done 3 sets per grip, so i can't really comment about the effects of changing from 2 to 3 sets. however, i have completed a fair number of total cyles, and the big question at the beginning of a new cycle is always where to start in terms of weight. mark had a good post on MP several years back, and i think he recommended starting your new cycle with the weights that you used on the 3rd workout of your previous cycle.
what i do is a little more involved, but fairly similar. i have excel plots of all of my cycles, with each set and it's weight plotted. any sets that i "failed" i have the marker set as a hollow shape instead of the usual filled in shape. this allows me to quickly look at all of the data and get a good idea of my performance. for my first workout of a new cycle, i look at my previous cycle data. if i "passed" all of my sets in the first 4 workouts, i use my 3rd workout weights. if not, i use 5 lbs less than the first workout that i "failed". i generally get about 25 lbs stronger (depending on grip, etc) during my cycle, and i usually improve my personal best about 2.5 lbs to 5 lbs with each cycle, depending on various other factors.
for your scenario, using your example and assuming that is what you used for the FIRST set of your last cycle and you easily "passed", i would go -25/-15/-5. if for some reason you are going into your HB cycle and you feel that your strength is way down, maybe due to injury or other things that interrupted your climbing/training, then i would be conservative and go -30/-20/-10. i think it is a LOT better to start a bit conservative and pass every set on your first couple workouts. it is really demoralizing to get beat down on your first workout of a cycle - trust me on this one... much better to get started off on the good foot and totally crush those first couple workouts.
if your LAST (ie highest loads) workout of the previous cycle was -20/-10, i would probably go something like -50/-40/-30 as a starting point.
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ken
New Member
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Post by ken on Jun 23, 2014 12:43:44 GMT -7
it is really demoralizing to get beat down on your first workout of a cycle - trust me on this one... much better to get started off on the good foot and totally crush those first couple workouts. if your LAST (ie highest loads) workout of the previous cycle was -20/-10, i would probably go something like -50/-40/-30 as a starting point. I have also read that you should err on the easier side when starting out a new cycle to get some momentum going and I have been wondering about it since then. Is the benefit purely psychological or is there physically some sort of momentum effect that carries you to new highs? Seems weird to me. What if you instead planned to start at a higher load closer to your limit but decided to hold the load steady for the first 3-4 or so workouts before bumping weights up? Seems to me you would avoid the demoralizing effect of hitting a ceiling early on but get perhaps get a little more of a training response. I'm planning to try it out in August next time I start hangboarding anyhow. Unfortunately I don't have too much experience to compare it against at the moment. |
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Post by slimshaky on Jun 23, 2014 14:31:38 GMT -7
in my experience, the first workout is usually 90% about getting back into the flow of executing the workout effectively. if you try to guess too close (ie get greedy on the weight) you can completely wreck the whole workout, particularly if it happens in one of the early sets - it really wrecks the remaining sets. i don't really see the purpose of starting kind of high, and trying to hold that weight for several workouts. it means you are either going to accomplish fewer sets during the first couple workouts, or you will just kind of be sputtering in place and not getting anywhere for the remaining workouts.
if you start a bit light, there is nothing stopping you from being a bit more aggressive in adding weight for the next workouts. i think the mental aspect of it is key - you really want to start out feeling strong. trust me, but the time you get to the 6th, or 7th, or 8th workout it becomes a real mental battle as well as a physical battle.
after you have gone through numerous cycles, i think it is easier to fine tune the weights more closely. that being said, i still prefer to start on the conservative side.
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Post by Greying on Granite on Jun 26, 2014 9:18:17 GMT -7
I'm still doing a single set workout with this for fear of injuring my fingers as I'm new to hangboarding. I barely need to take any weight off for anything except the wide pinch and MR 2 pad pockets which requires like -47 kg for 10/5 x6 sets. Almost everything else is pretty good with straight body wt or maybe up to -10kg. My biggest issue is often that my lats/posterior delts start getting pumped keeping my elbows bent, especially if I did an ARC workout warm up. Am I doing something wrong or should I just be bumping up to shorter hangs and doing second sets?
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Post by MarkAnderson on Jun 29, 2014 14:06:00 GMT -7
it is really demoralizing to get beat down on your first workout of a cycle - trust me on this one... much better to get started off on the good foot and totally crush those first couple workouts. if your LAST (ie highest loads) workout of the previous cycle was -20/-10, i would probably go something like -50/-40/-30 as a starting point. I have also read that you should err on the easier side when starting out a new cycle to get some momentum going and I have been wondering about it since then. Is the benefit purely psychological or is there physically some sort of momentum effect that carries you to new highs? Seems weird to me. What if you instead planned to start at a higher load closer to your limit but decided to hold the load steady for the first 3-4 or so workouts before bumping weights up? Seems to me you would avoid the demoralizing effect of hitting a ceiling early on but get perhaps get a little more of a training response. I'm planning to try it out in August next time I start hangboarding anyhow. Unfortunately I don't have too much experience to compare it against at the moment. I agree with slim that the psychological aspect is really important. That said, there are physical reasons too. First, you can injure yourself if you do too much too early. Second, if you do too much weight, you can;t complete all the reps and sets. You have to do a certain amount of "work" to get a training effect, and if you do too too much weight, at some point you're not doing enough "work" to improve. This is the post practical reason to err on the side of too little resistance. particularly when you;re starting out. Once you've been doing this for years you'll have a good sense for what is too much and what is too little. In all my years I can't think of ever regretting using too little resistance, especially early in a Strength Phase. 8-10 workouts is plenty enough to get you too your limit. |
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Post by MarkAnderson on Jun 29, 2014 14:07:59 GMT -7
I'm still doing a single set workout with this for fear of injuring my fingers as I'm new to hangboarding. I barely need to take any weight off for anything except the wide pinch and MR 2 pad pockets which requires like -47 kg for 10/5 x6 sets. Almost everything else is pretty good with straight body wt or maybe up to -10kg. My biggest issue is often that my lats/posterior delts start getting pumped keeping my elbows bent, especially if I did an ARC workout warm up. Am I doing something wrong or should I just be bumping up to shorter hangs and doing second sets? How long is your ARC warmup? And, how is your hold spacing, relative to your shoulder width? It does seem a bit odd that your lats are getting worn out first, but I think with time that should improve. |
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Post by markdixon on Jun 30, 2014 5:53:03 GMT -7
Just reviewed my training log and thought I'd share this FWIW.
Earlier this year I switched from doing single 6 rep sets of 6 second on / 4 second rest to doing two sets of 7 second on / 3 second rests (7 reps in set one and 6 reps in set two.) I switched most of the grips too but of the few I kept constant, I started each with 20 pounds more taken away than I had been using for the single sets. Worked OK, never too discouraged.
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