Hangboarding with a crimp grip

[Ben]

Hi Mark and Mike,

You have a very useful product here, with both the book and website. Thanks for your efforts. I have a question regarding the different types of ways to train a four finger edge on the hangboard. 0I have found that I don't see a lot of difference (in appearance) between an open grip, a closed grip (with thumb), and a half crimp when trying to use all four fingers. Perhaps my fingers are of strange length, but I don't seem to be able to hold an edge with a completely open grip (minimal bend in all fingers) if my pinky is involved. My pinky seems too short to allow the other fingers to stay mostly straight. Is this true for everyone? 

Also, the only difference I can observe between a closed crimp and a half crimp is in my pointer finger. My pointer is mostly straight in a half crimp but very bent (or closed) in a closed crimp. It doesn't seem like anything else changes in my other fingers. Perhaps the others are different by a few degrees? Or maybe i'm just not looking closely enough from my angle of perspective? So, for you, are you able to observe other differences in position between those two grips?

Finally, a question about the closed crimp grip. I assume you wrap the thumb over the first finger when training the closed crimp, yes? I wonder if not wrapping the thumb would allow better results? I have experimented with mimicking the exact position of all the fingers (angles, etc) but leaving the thumb off the first finger. The reps then end when there is any "collapsing of the fingers" (they tend to begin to straighten- rep ends when this occurs). The one advantage I have noticed from this is avoidance of skin tears on the cuticle of my first finger. Apparently, i wrap my thumb with such force that eventually i split the cuticle lengthwise along the finger when training a closed crimp with the thumb wrapped- I may also be sliding my thumb an imperceptible distance across the cuticle. Have you ever played with this grip in this way? If not, can you see any problems or pitfalls there? (besides the thumb not doing any of the work?)

Sorry that got a little wordy- hope it's clear enough to understand. Thank you for any thoughts you have. 
 Ben

[sam]

I've had similar experience with different HB grips - and wondered if individual finger length (comparatively between fingers on the hand) makes a difference.

I've found my "open crimp" and "four finger open" grips are pretty damn close.

As a result I've trained "four finger open" however feels most comfortable/natural (for me that's with my index finger more open than closed). I also train a closed crimp. I've been training my pure "open" position using two/three finger pockets.

This is my solution, but I'm curious to hear what others have done.

[Mike Anderson]

Finger configurations definitely vary among climbers, which is why we stress that your training must be individualized.

We can have fun discussing theoretical finger joint angles, but what really matters is the grips you use when you climb on your limit routes. I suggest you spend some time considering (and even experimenting at the crag, if needed) what grips you climb with, and which holds you struggle on (or prevent you from sending your goal routes). These are the grips you should isolate in training.

I hope this answers your question. Good luck with your training, and we're stoked you like the book!

[MarkAnderson]

I agree wtih what Mike said, but to add some more detail:

I train what I call a "half crimp" or "Semi-closed crimp", which is M&R fingers bent ~100degrees at the PIP joint, and I & P fingers straight at the PIP joint (so, totally "open"). I&P are bent at the DIP joint, M&R are essentially straight at the DIP joint. This is as open as my 4-finger grip gets on uniform edge, and this is my go-to grip outside.

I also train a fully closed crimp, with a thumb wrap. HOWEVER, thumb-wrapping is super dangerous, especially in training, because your thumb can place huge amounts of force on your Index finger's DIP joint. So I "cheat" the thumb wrap to greatly reduce this risk. I do this by placing my thumb pad on the edge itself, adjacent to my index finger, rather than on top of the index finger (actually, the tip of my thumb rests on the outer edge of my index finger nail, but it exerts very little, if any, force on it). I've found this works really well and allows me to really push this grip without constant fear of destroying my index finger. I'll try to post some pics of what I'm talking about in the future.

Finally, as Ben said, I try really hard to maintain the closed crimp position. If I break that position, the set is over. One advantage of using a modified thumb wrap is that it makes it easier to maintain the full crimp position, and if its starts to open, the thumb will slip off and you will have no choice but to stop. Without a thumb wrap its possible for the hand to gradually open without a clear failure point.

DISCLAIMER: Training in a crimp position is risky! You must use caution and "listen to your body"!

[Ben]

Thanks for the great responses, all. Mark, that's a great tip about the thumb wrapped on the hold instead of the joint- I came to a similar solution, but for different reasons. Like I said before, I was concerned about cuticle damage to the first finger, and I also felt like I could hold a hugely larger amount of weight with a wrapped thumb (I hadn't even considered the potential joint damage). While not using the thumb is less specific (in terms of training specificity) to the closed crimp, I had a project that required a stronger closed crimp grip. After training the closed crimp without the thumb wrap, that section of the route became almost insignificant. I certainly can't claim the results on the route were due to training that way, but I'm happy with how it turned out. And in case anyone else out there wants to work the grip without the thumb and in a dorky and consistent manner, I marked a place on the fingerboard where my thumb would normally reach in a closed grip and installed a thumb tack there. Instead of trying to watch or feel my closed grip "opening", if I lost contact between my thumb and the tack, I knew my grip was collapsing and the rep was over. 

Thanks again.