Large Open-Hand Edge

[igga]

Hi guys.

What is meant by "Large Open-Hand Edge" in the book?

Is this like you try an open hand on a larger edge, lets say 20mm, where you use the whole depth of the edge. Hard to explain. I will try to post a photo yesterday.

[jetjackson]

It just means the edge is larger.

I think this is also because, when the book was made there was just the original RPTC hangboard available - it has a large edge and a small edge, sometimes referred to as the LVDER and SVDER = Large Variable Edge Depth Rail and Small Variable Edge Depth Rail.

In the book I think they are just referring to the large edge. If it's on the beginner hangboard plan, it's probably just there because a beginner is likely going to need to use a large edge.

Depending on your specific knuckle anatomy, you may find that on an open hand 25mm edge, you might only use 22mm of it, to be most comfortable - for me there is a point where on a big edge, I like to hold it with a specific point on my knuckles to keep the grip open handed without it becoming like a half crimp jug where I have 2/3rds of my fingers on top of the hold. The edge could be 40mm for all I care, I'm still only going to use that much on the edge that is required to open crimp. Somewhere between 25-30mm is probably what I would consider to be the largest edge I can open hang before it's no longer an open grip. As you start to max out that large edge size in terms of say, maybe adding 40% BW to the edge for 6 reps, then you might want to start to downsize the edge, or 'move down the LVDER' keeping the open grip, but allowing you to reduce weight added.

[igga]

Thanks so much for the answer Jackson. Very good explanation. I fond this grip in the intermediate hangboard training plan. There is no half crimp grip included anywhere, in all the other training plans it is a gold standard and most used for repeaters abd max weight protocols. Do you know any reasin behind that? Thanks.

[jetjackson]

I'm not sure why it was not included, perhaps Mark or Mike can provide their opinion on training half-crimp joint position. Personally, I train all three - Full Crimp, Half Crimp, Open Crimp. 

I think it has become the 'gold standard' in a lot of training programs because of the idea that 'half-crimp translates to full-crimp/open-crimp'. Often other programs avoid training the full-crimp and say you can just train half-crimp and it translates. People have an aversion to training full crimp, and you will see out there people say "should never train full crimp" - I've had people DM me on Instagram when I've posted full crimp repeaters, and they will tell me that it's 'dangerous'. I've always taken the approach of, if I'm going to use the grip outside, I want to train it in a controlled setting - it's just as much about tendon conditioning as it is about the strength gains.

In the RPTM book you will find a reference from a study showing, I think majority of strength gains are +/- 30 degrees of the angle trained - double check the number. Essentially the further you get away from the joint angle trained, the less the strength gains apply. Another reason I train full crimp.

Part of the reason I train half-crimp was because I found I was using it outdoors, particularly on slopers where you sort of 'false grip' the edge. You need to be able to really hold that joint position to do the false grip well. See this video to know what I mean - www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPyY-hox5bU

I think there is also applicability of the half crimp in that, if you open crimp a hold, often as you lock off on it, move through it pushing upwards, it will become a half-crimp in transition as you're coming off the hold, and I want to be able to apply the strength through the range of motion from open crimp to half crimp. 

Personally I don't think 'half-crimp' has any more reason to be in a training program than open or full crimp.

[igga]

I will include half crimp as well - probably on a 20 mm edge and open hand on a 15 mm with M and R fingers slightly bend - like 15 degrees. Which depth do you use for those 2?

Full crimp is also logical to train. I think climbers use it quite a lot and especially boulderers here in Slovenia on limestone. One thing I notice with full crimping is that my skin on the upper index finger got torn, because of the pressure applied on the nail, so I was bleeding and that is why I stopped training it, but I was using the smallest edge

Yes I can see what you mean with Manis video, interesting hold.

Thanks for the detailed answer!

[jetjackson]

Open Crimp - 14mm
Half Crimp - About 20mm I think - the widest part of the VDER on the Trango Forge.
Full Crimp - 8mm (on Trango Forge with Thumb Catch)

I would see training full crimp as a way to forcing the adaptations in the skin to prevent that torn skin - you want an edge with a good draft though - not too sharp.

[igga]

Yeah, good recommendations Jet, I will try these for the first couple of cycles. Will do 10 intermediate workouts and let's see how it will translate to the specific finger strength on the rock. Hopefully, I will see some progression

[jetjackson]

Good luck, just don't be discouraged if your first 2-3 sessions after the hangboard cycle you feel sluggish. This is noted in the book and I definitely feel it. You really need some solid limit bouldering or power sessions to start translating that strength to be applied in power situations. After a few sessions you'll really notice the strength gains starting to work. At first however, it may seem that your climbing has gone backwards.

[igga]

Great, thanks for the encouragement. I did 3 int sessions. It is a great workout. I feel quite good. Before I was doing only the max hangs, but these repeaters are awesome, like the volume of the training, I think it could transfer well on the PE later on, 7 on 3 off is quite "pumpy" and better for injury prevention because of a bit less load.

I really like the book, because everything is so structured and easy to follow. I read the Hörst book as well, it is good but there are so many things included that you don't know where to start and time-consuming as well. I am really psyched about this method. I got a son 2 months ago and really want to dial my training and get the most out of my dedicated time.

Wish you all the best with your goals!

[jetjackson]

Jun 1, 2021 3:36:31 GMT -7 igga said:

 I got a son 2 months ago and really want to dial my training and get the most out of my dedicated time.

Congratulations!

Training as a new parent brings it's unique challenges - there is a great post here on it here - rockprodigytraining.proboards.com/thread/1999/programming-parenthood 

On the boulders I went from V8 - V10 between the birth of my son and him hitting 14 months old. Bouldering is a bit easier as a parent, but my experience is that you can still see progress.

[hukochanmiy]

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