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Post by Charlie S on May 12, 2020 8:07:40 GMT -7
Saw this posted on YouTube and thought it was interesting: www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lcpl3p54zigHe goes through a number of different criteria to make a certain assessment. The main point, though, I'll summarize here: If you have a big spread between "safe" OS, "safe" 2nd go RP, and max RP, strength is likely the limiting factor. In his example, he talks about how he's a good 1 number grade between all of them in "yankee doodle grading" (I love that term!) If you have a small spread in those, then it's likely technique that is holding you back. Example: My "safe" OS is around 5.11a/b. My "safe" 2nd go RP is around 12a/b. My max RP is 5.13a. The spread indicates that I have enough technique in my "bag of tricks" to climb much harder than my safe OS. By increasing strength, I could shift the OS/2nd go RP to the right, while also bumping up max RP. In another example, he uses a climber whose spread is more like 11c/12a/12c. In this case, the strength is consistent but the climber doesn't have the "bag of tricks" required for the harder climbing. Anyway, I thought that was an informative (albeit broad-brush) way to determine a limiting factor. In case anyone is wondering, right now my limiting factor is the carrot cake Oreos I can't say no to. |
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Post by MarkAnderson on May 12, 2020 12:24:46 GMT -7
Interesting. Who is saying this?
It seems backwards to me. Maybe I misunderstand the semantics.
In my experience the 11c/12a/12c climber has poor redpoint tactics and maybe doesn’t realize the value of effective rehearsal (in other words, rarely bothers trying to redpoint harder routes). It rarely has anything to do with strength.
The climber with a huge spread has spent so much time in their training dungeon pushing their redpoint grade that they’ve forgotten how to rock climb (in other words, their technique and ability to try hard in a spontaneous situation has degraded from neglect).
So bottom line, I would argue a wide spread means relatively poor “technique” and a narrow spread means poor RP tactics. The only relevance to strength IMO is where your grouping is centered on the grade scale.
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Post by jetjackson on May 12, 2020 19:54:06 GMT -7
The climber with a huge spread has spent so much time in their training dungeon pushing their redpoint grade that they’ve forgotten how to rock climb (in other words, their technique and ability to try hard in a spontaneous situation has degraded from neglect).  |
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Post by Charlie S on May 13, 2020 5:31:13 GMT -7
Interesting. Who is saying this? …. The climber with a huge spread has spent so much time in their training dungeon pushing their redpoint grade that they’ve forgotten how to rock climb (in other words, their technique and ability to try hard in a spontaneous situation has degraded from neglect). Mani Hubaer, out of Austria. There were a number of caveats. Initially, I agree that it seemed backwards. But I am that spread-out climber. Onsighting can be really tough, especially while feeling around for holds on hard-to-read rock. More strength would increase the reserves, no? And I certainly have a limited energy capacity when it comes to routes at the "safe 2nd go" category, i.e. if it doesn't go in 2-3 burns then I may have nothing left in the tank for the day. If we juxtapose this against my climbing at Indian Creek, the spread is more like 10+/11-/12- (a little more compact, and I only have 1 max RP at 12-, the rest are 11+). I can tell you that it's ALL technique for that style of climbing. |
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Post by MarkAnderson on May 13, 2020 8:51:28 GMT -7
In the case of IC, and to a lesser extent but similar the Red, there is very little beta involved to figure out. If you have the technical ability to do the first move, you’re unlikely to be stumped by the sequence anywhere else on the route. So then it just boils down to whether you have the fitness to reach the chains before pumping out or not. That is why people’s onsight and redpoint grades have a narrow spread at these crags.
I think people who onsight well at technical crags do so because they are really good at reading sequences on the fly and/or trying hard/going for it when they are unsure of the outcome.
On the other hand with redpointing, any monkey can be trained to mimic the technical movements of whoever came before, in which case success depends on whether you have the physical ability to execute those techniques and the determination to see the process through to conclusion.
Of course in the rare instance when a climber is figuring our beta for themselves on a hard redpoint, technical ability is a factor. Still, with enough fiddling it’s only a matter of time before even the most inept technician stumbles into a successful sequence.
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Post by jetjackson on May 13, 2020 14:20:45 GMT -7
On the other hand with redpointing, any monkey can be trained to mimic the technical movements of whoever came before, in which case success depends on whether you have the physical ability to execute those techniques and the determination to see the process through to conclusion. Still, with enough fiddling it’s only a matter of time before even the most inept technician stumbles into a successful sequence. Are these not two key processes for which one learns technique anyway? Mimicry and experimentation. |
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