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Post by MarkAnderson on Nov 19, 2018 7:58:03 GMT -7
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Post by jetjackson on Nov 19, 2018 13:40:29 GMT -7
Awesome... I think I've hinted at a FIRE strategy on here before in the Programming for Parenthood thread, I suspected that you were of that ilk. I wouldn't be surprised if a few others on here are following a somewhat similar strategy with regards to career and finances. It makes sense for a climbing lifestyle. As climbers, I think we have a solid element worked out in terms of what we might do post-'Fire'.
Many parallels for me here.
When I grew up, my father hit me with the books 'Millionaire next door', 'Richest man in Babylon' and 'Rich Dad, Poor Dad' (Although the last I think is snake-oil now) and my father is reasonably frugal. Originally my plan had been to get there, not by saving, but just making as much money as possible. I had a few failed businesses and career paths in my early 20s, and eventually settled into the earn, save and invest mindset as I realized that it was a more guaranteed way to get there, and I could be satisfied with a relatively modest lifestyle, even if I didn't end up being the next 'Zuckerberg'.
In 2011, I wasn't climbing, but I took 18 months off work and just travelled - learnt Kung Fu in China, did the Trans-Siberian railroad, bought a motorbike and rode around Europe with my now wife for 12 months. It was great, but what I took away from it, was that it wouldn't be fulfilling forever - that aimless travel is just hedonistic, and eventually you are going to want community and greater purpose. I came back to work with greater focus - no longer did I daydream about travel while at work. My career flourished as a result.... now I daydream a bit about climbing, but I have motivation for work as a means to an end.
Wife and I have been saving and investing or a few years now. Nearly all index funds. We're nearing 8x expenses at 34, so we have a bit to go. I hope to be in a similar position to you at a similar point in life. I don't think I'll ever 'retire' fully. I'd like to have a period of a few years where I can at least focus significantly on climbing, while being a parent, and not have to worry about work. I'd like to do more things with my creative side - maybe a few climbing films! I'd like to do something entrepreneurial too - I just won't risk the 'stash' on it.
... birds of a feather!
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Post by MarkAnderson on Nov 19, 2018 17:01:03 GMT -7
Sounds like you’ve been reading MMM!
Hedonistic is a good word for it. I feel like my life is a pendulum swinging between long bouts of Stoicism and shorter stints of Hedonism, based on where I am with climbing at the time.
8x is pretty good for your age. I wish I knew then what I know now, we could’ve gotten here faster for sure. We wasted a lot of time and money with an Actively Managed Account. Besides the fees, their poor management and our ignorance cost us tens of K’s in taxes.
Anyway, tell us about the Trans Siberian Railroad!
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Post by Chris W on Nov 19, 2018 19:04:20 GMT -7
Talking about money makes my soul hurt. I'm so far in debt from school that it's nauseating. I wasn't dirtbagging, unless you count living in the back of my truck between rotations in school, but I basically spent the first 8 years of my "adult" life paying to work, with another 3 getting paid peanuts while providing slave labor under the guise of education.
It's my own dumb fault, which may be why I'm bitter about it. In my better moments, I'm thankful that I have a steady job that provides for my family while also caring for my fellow man.
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Post by jetjackson on Nov 19, 2018 21:55:50 GMT -7
In my better moments, I'm thankful that I have a steady job that provides for my family while also caring for my fellow man. That's a good thing. I don't get that kind of fulfillment from my work. I hope to do things later in life that will plug that gap. If you're work is fulfilling emotionally, and it pays, I don't think there is necessarily a reason to 'RE'. My mother works for a cardiologist in his late 70s that is still working - he has had enough money to retire for a few decades. I was lucky enough to see my father make a few mistakes that I could learn from. One of those was leveraging mutual funds, which forced him to start from scratch after the GFC in 2008. He wanted to get 'there' faster, and it cost him an extra decade of working. Australia has compulsory 9% superannuation (aka 401k) that we get as soon as we start working. So most Australians have a chunk built up by their mid-30s, even if they lack savings discipline. I'm sure we will make mistakes along the way. I've got a spreadsheet I work off, and it has a few scenarios of repeat-GFC style events that I try to become more comfortable with, like contemplating fall consequences! It's helped me through recent months with the turbulence in the markets and seeing our 'number' fluctuate a bit. Indeed I've read a bit of MMM... although I was already on that path before I found that, it just honed my focus a bit and gave me some more motivation. FIRE seems to be gaining momentum as a brand, but I think the underlying ethos has always been there in some form with a certain sub-culture, it's just gaining a branding now in the Web 2.0 world that newer generations connect with. I'm not what I would describe as a 'hyper-frugalist' - I'm not in the boat with the likes of some MMM adherants that live on a food budget of <$5 per day, cut their own hair and ride bikes everywhere. Compared to that, we're quite spendthrift, but compared to our peers we're pretty frugal. I am in sales and have to play the game a bit when it comes to 'keeping up appearances', but it's manageable. There are elements of the slow and steady, incremental improvement process to personal finance that attract me to it as a strategy, that also attract me to the Rockprodigy training process of building incremental performance gains over years. That train smarter, not harder approach, and sacrificing in the present for gains in the future. As for the Trans-Siberian - it was a bucket-list experience. I did it during winter from Beijing through Mongolia to Moscow. I spent the days chatting to random travelers, staring out into a winter wonderland. 7 days straight on the train! It was like living in a Wes Andersen film. I grew up travelling with my mother by train, as we could not afford to travel by plane, and so I'm quite fond of the whole atmosphere of train travel.
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mrCC
New Member
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Post by mrCC on Nov 20, 2018 5:54:36 GMT -7
Guys, I love this discussion. I've been an active member here for some time, but I'm still a bit gun-shy on posting my name (or any part of it) for professional reasons.
I want to start focusing effort on presenting others' stories. My original intention of this site was to talk about what my wife and I had done to get us where we are, but let's face it, it's inspiring to some but is self-congratulatory to many others. Look at the title of this thread!
I had Mark in mind very early on to be featured on the site. For those of us that have been floating around on this forum, we know the dedication Mark has for climbing. After a few discussions, I could tell he was doing that with money too. We also featured Chuck and Maggie Odette for similar reasons.
But I want to reach out to anyone. Chris, if you think it would be helpful to examine your situation (completely anonymously if desired) as a case study that would be amazing. I too am happy though that you have fulfillment in your job -- I don't. Just PM me. Jet, same goes for you, although it sounds like you're well on your way.
I want this to be something that's relatable to anyone. I want to take discussions of money out of the closet.
The parallels to training are very real, and I love the phrase that's often thrown around that apply to both: The aggregation of marginal gains. It's a phrase often used on the ChooseFI podcast (highly recommended), and I love the idea of it: stacking small short-term wins for long-term gain.
Either way, thanks for checking us out and thanks to Mark for the continued inspiration!
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Post by erick on Nov 20, 2018 7:50:58 GMT -7
Favorite quote from the article here...
CC: What do you do in your current career?
Mark: I forward emails, which is a concise way of saying I am a mid-level supervisor of engineers in a government bureaucracy.
The description of this is perfect!
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Post by MarkAnderson on Nov 20, 2018 9:08:33 GMT -7
Indeed I've read a bit of MMM... although I was already on that path before I found that, it just honed my focus a bit and gave me some more motivation.... There are elements of the slow and steady, incremental improvement process to personal finance that attract me to it as a strategy, that also attract me to the Rockprodigy training process of building incremental performance gains over years. That train smarter, not harder approach, and sacrificing in the present for gains in the future. ...As for the Trans-Siberian - ...It was like living in a Wes Andersen film. Same here on MMM. We were already on a similar path, but I find a lot of that stuff resonates with me, and it’s reassuring to know there are others out there, especially when most of my immediate peer group is far on the other end of the spectrum. Re: similarities with RPTM, I totally agree. It’s about have a disciplined approach to life; being willing to make sacrifices today in order to benefit in the future. Re: Trans Siberian/Wes Anderson ... haha, reminds me exactly of the Grand Budapest Hotel!
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Post by MarkAnderson on Nov 20, 2018 9:11:33 GMT -7
Guys, I love this discussion. I've been an active member here for some time, but I'm still a bit gun-shy on posting my name (or any part of it) for professional reasons. I want to start focusing effort on presenting others' stories. My original intention of this site was to talk about what my wife and I had done to get us where we are, but let's face it, it's inspiring to some but is self-congratulatory to many others. Look at the title of this thread! I had Mark in mind very early on to be featured on the site. For those of us that have been floating around on this forum, we know the dedication Mark has for climbing. After a few discussions, I could tell he was doing that with money too. We also featured Chuck and Maggie Odette for similar reasons. But I want to reach out to anyone. Chris, if you think it would be helpful to examine your situation (completely anonymously if desired) as a case study that would be amazing. I too am happy though that you have fulfillment in your job -- I don't. Just PM me. Jet, same goes for you, although it sounds like you're well on your way. I want this to be something that's relatable to anyone. I want to take discussions of money out of the closet. The parallels to training are very real, and I love the phrase that's often thrown around that apply to both: The aggregation of marginal gains. It's a phrase often used on the ChooseFI podcast (highly recommended), and I love the idea of it: stacking small short-term wins for long-term gain. Either way, thanks for checking us out and thanks to Mark for the continued inspiration! Multiple accounts with a fake identity!! That’s grounds for a ban on Mountain Project I’ll let slide this one time....
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mrCC
New Member
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Post by mrCC on Nov 20, 2018 9:51:19 GMT -7
Ha, only one! I was briefly banned on MP with this name. Lesson learned: never post about credit card travel miles.
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Post by Chris W on Nov 20, 2018 18:42:42 GMT -7
Chris, if you think it would be helpful to examine your situation (completely anonymously if desired) as a case study that would be amazing. Ha! I'll think about it, though I'm not sure what use it would be to you. I'm not too sure there is much I can do about my financial situation besides working more. The things I spend money on I consider to be very important. I pay more in student loans each month than most people make, and it consumes around half of my take home pay (after taxes). It's probably more appropriate to say that I'm struggling to recognize and accept the goodness of my work while simultaneously striving to suppress my natural tendency to be bitter, ungrateful and angry. I never expected to work THIS hard and still struggle THIS much financially. Still, I snatch a lot of people away from the grim reaper. It's especially rewarding to do that for little kids. A lot of people don't understand how close to the line they come when I see them.
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Post by jetjackson on Nov 21, 2018 3:26:22 GMT -7
Either way, thanks for checking us out and thanks to Mark for the continued inspiration! All good, thanks for putting together the content - it was great to also see a similar interview there from Chuck and Maggie Odette. It's good to know that there will be a few other climbers out there in FI mode. I suggest that we all buy houses near world class crags, and then just do rotational house swaps! My wife's parents did that when she was in school - they took them out of school and did a few house swaps in Vancouver, Denver, and another place I can't recall. They have a house on the beach here in Australia, so it's a pretty attractive swap for someone looking for a change from the mountains. I definitely get that, in some career paths, admitting you're planning on RE would be quickly career limiting. It surprises me the number of people out there who are happy to get their 15 minutes of fame in the paper or on television, talking about their plans for FIRE, despite having careers where you would think maintaining privacy on your financial plans would be prudent.
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Post by MarkAnderson on Nov 21, 2018 12:55:43 GMT -7
I suggest that we all buy houses near world class crags, and then just do rotational house swaps! Great idea! I call Fall in all the best places!
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Post by jetjackson on Nov 21, 2018 14:43:57 GMT -7
Touche!
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Post by Chris W on Nov 21, 2018 18:41:13 GMT -7
So... Who wants to come to my place for some high quality Pennsylvania Diabase bouldering? Best in winter, when the temps are below freezing! And if it's sopping wet with snow or rain*, you can always train in the barn!
*It's usually sopping wet with snow or rain.
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