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Post by ryanmcd on Dec 7, 2017 20:40:20 GMT -7
My question is about long rest between cycles. Should this get longer or shorter the older you get? On the longer side, there’s the analogy to rest during training. My 12-year-old needs zero days rest between any given hard workout. I, at the age of 39, training age of 4, need two days between power and strength workouts. At the same time, if I go two weeks without some kind of training, I feel I’ve lost months. If my son does that, he’s hardly lost anything. So for the long inter-cycle recovery phase, is it better for middle age climbers to stretch it out, or try to shorten or eliminate it, while “greasing the groove” but giving things a general rest (e.g. only climbing 3or4 number grades below your limit?
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Post by Lundy on Dec 7, 2017 20:48:00 GMT -7
This is something I've experimented with a lot, and I think I've found what works for me (42 y/o). I have basically eliminated the longer rests between cycles, as I felt like I was losing too much that I would subsequently struggle to get back. However, I do think I need more rest within a given cycle, so I do three hard weeks, and every fourth week is super casual with just one day climbing at the gym and no weights. So I'm getting the rest my body needs throughout the cycle, but not losing the gains between cycles.
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Post by jonfrisby on Dec 8, 2017 9:04:29 GMT -7
I'm not an old man like either of you yet but I've found that 4-5 day rests every 3-4 weeks is more rejuvenating than 1+ week rests between cycles
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Post by srossabi42 on Dec 11, 2017 10:41:13 GMT -7
Lundy and Jon, what do your hangboarding cycles look like? do you HB for 3 weeks, deload, then HB for another 3 weeks, deload, move to limit boulder/campus? or just one 3 week block of HB?
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Post by jonfrisby on Dec 11, 2017 11:16:31 GMT -7
I hang year round. I do block periodization, so during my strength blocks, which are typically 4 weeks, I hang 2-3x/week. In other blocks, I hang minimally 1x/week and up to once every 4 days. During performance maybe once every 10 days. I'll still hang during deload weeks but keep overall TUT around 2 minutes which is 2/3 my typical volume.
I generally find CNS fatigue to build up over a block more than other types of fatigue, so my deload weeks avoid any near-limit bouldering or max hangs, but hard flashing and 85% intensity hangboarding goes pretty well as long as the volume is 2/3-1/2 your typical weekly volume |
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Post by aikibujin on Dec 11, 2017 11:42:22 GMT -7
I generally find CNS fatigue to build up over a block more than other types of fatigue, so my deload weeks avoid any near-limit bouldering or max hangs, but hard flashing and 85% intensity hangboarding goes pretty well as long as the volume is 2/3-1/2 your typical weekly volume Just curious, how do you tell if you have CNS fatigue vs other fatigue? Does it feel differently? |
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Post by scojo on Dec 11, 2017 12:15:45 GMT -7
I generally find CNS fatigue to build up over a block more than other types of fatigue, so my deload weeks avoid any near-limit bouldering or max hangs, but hard flashing and 85% intensity hangboarding goes pretty well as long as the volume is 2/3-1/2 your typical weekly volume Just curious, how do you tell if you have CNS fatigue vs other fatigue? Does it feel differently? I'm also curious about this. I'm also skeptical that fingerboarding (and even limit bouldering) actually cause CNS fatigue. Doesn't CNS fatigue more often occur with maximum full body movements (like squatting and deadlifting) rather than isolation exercises (like fingerboarding)? |
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Post by jonfrisby on Dec 11, 2017 16:21:26 GMT -7
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Post by aikibujin on Dec 11, 2017 16:52:32 GMT -7
Thanks for the link. I haven't read that before, so it was an interesting read. Normally when I get that "I don't want to climb/train" feeling, it's usually due to a stressful day at work. But I'm wondering if I'm experiencing this CNS fatigue on Sonic. "This so-called central fatigue can impair coordination, concentration, and your ability to perform difficult motor skills." That's how I feel at the top of Sonic. The individual moves don't feel very hard to me, but when I have to maintain focus the whole time in order to execute them all well, I start to lose that concentration and coordination the higher up I get. Obviously getting pumped and tired plays a role in all this, but mentally I feel really beat up when I try hard up there. |
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Post by RobF on Dec 11, 2017 17:13:54 GMT -7
Maybes this quote from Royal Robbins will help you "I wondered what would happen if I just climbed as if I were going to make it, with no uncertainty in my mind whatsoever. Just climbed and climbed until gravity tore me from the holds"
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Post by RobF on Dec 11, 2017 17:24:20 GMT -7
An interesting aside re: CNS fatigue (which I'm unsure how to measure monitor / will have to do some reading). Anaerobic metabolism generates 2 atp's per glucose, aerobic metabolism generates approx 38 atp's per unit of glucose. When you realise this you can see how inefficient the anaerobic system is- and really how training needs to be set up to maximise the lactate threshold so that you're working within the aerobic system. Your brain can only use carbohydrates for energy (not proteins or fats) so operating on a background of continued glucose/ glycogen depletion will have a big impact on the CNS over a period of time.
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Post by Lundy on Dec 11, 2017 18:55:15 GMT -7
I also hangboard year round, but with a different protocol then Jon. The important variable in my workout schedule is that my days stay consistent, so the every third day protocol, where the days you workout every week vary, doesn't work for me (or really, my wife, but what's the difference). So, I do a climbing workout every Monday, Wednesday, and Saturday.
When I'm in my strength phase, I hangboard Wednesday and Saturday with the standard RCTM protocol, then hit the gym on Mondays (note that my gym has a 65 foot, 30 degree overhung lead wall, so this workout ends up somewhere between ARCing and PE). This is mostly due to the fact that I get limited time outside, so it's good for me to do actual climbing most of the year to keep my movement sharp. I hangboard like this for three weeks (6 workouts), then take a week where I just climb at the gym on Monday, and bail on my Wednesday and Saturday sessions. The next week I go back to normal, starting with the gym on Monday. Then, when I hit the Wednesday workout, I go back to where I was the previous Wed (= workout #5) and build back up from there for three more weeks. This is 12 workouts total, but only 10 where you're trying to progress your weight. Works pretty well for me.
I then take another week where I don't workout on Wed and Sat, and I move into the power phase with the gym climbing on Monday. then a 5-3-1 hangboard protocol on Wednesdays, then LB and campus on Saturdays. Then another week off.
For the PE phase, I still do the gym Monday and 5-3-1 HB on Wed, but then do a LBC workout on Saturdays (as well as some maxi-hangs).
So, I think this is more of a conjugate periodization model, for anyone keeping score. And my deloading is just climbing at the gym, rather than trying to super-deload the HB or LBC or whatever...
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