Vegan help

[erick]

This question is especially for any of you who are vegan or vegetarian but I would appreciate feedback from anyone who has insight.

So my wife and I have adopted a vegan diet (more specifically a nutritarian diet www.drfuhrman.com/learn/the-nutritarian-diet) and so far its going great. I generally feel great, sleep well, have plenty of energy, am rarely hungry, but now I'm feeling what I think are some effects of my diet on my training. Like I said, I have plenty of energy for training but I seem to be recovering much slower than usual and be generally low on power.

Do you all think this is a sign of me lacking protein or some other macro nutrient? I have never been overweight so do you think its possible that since I started eating this way I am just not eating enough (I do not now, nor have I ever tracked my calorie intake)? Do you have any thoughts?

Eric

[jwills]

I'm sure this question could be answered in a million different ways. The 3 biggest things I'd say would be the following:
1. Total calories. Looks like there are some limitations on the number of servings of certain foods. I'd suggest tracking for 2 or 3 days in something like myfitnesspal just to get an idea of the number of calories. If you're still training and the number is well below 1800-2000 you're probably just deficient on calories. That calorie number is a big generalization and shouldn't be a hard rule. Rather I'd look at what you were eating before the diet and compare it that way.
2. Protein. This one is pretty obvious. I think people in general overestimate how much protein they "need" but still on a vegan/vegetarian diet there is the possibility of going well below. Maybe shooting for 0.5g/lb to 0.8g/lb as a minimum. I'd aim for the higher end if you're losing weight on the diet.
3. Maybe this isn't one of the "biggest" reasons but I'll mention it as it often gets overlooked...creatine. Creatine is used for a lot of powerful movements and usually comes from meat/chicken/fish. Adding a little creatine to your diet (3-5 g/day) could help with power. The higher end of this occasionally comes with some water weight so you'll have to see how your performance changes to determine if it is worth it.

Just my 2 cents. When making pretty big changes tracking things (training journal, food diary, etc) can really help determine if the change is overall positive as far as your priorities at the time go.

[Chris W]

My first thought was to check out trainingbeta.com. They have nutritionists available for consultation.

My second thought was to be sure to eat enough protein. I don't know much about vegan diets, or vegetarian diets, but a simple experiment would be to add a protein supplement and see if it fixes the problem.

[tetrault]

Ultimately, would tracking your calories be of much use/consequence if your weight is consistent (or slight gaining during early base/hyp and losing during power/PE) ?

I have wondered this myself, and have a hard time believing that if you are controlling your weight as you desire, you can mess with your calories without it affecting that balance.


From what I read, protein from split peas is quite similar to whey as far as an athlete would be concerned. And, again, just from what I read, many athletes have great success with soy protein.
Ex: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3905294/#!po=62.1951

www.afpafitness.com/research-articles/best-protein-for-muscle-growth


This topic seems to be much better studied than isometric finger strength. Though, there is so much information out there that many conflicts can be uncovered if you get to deep into it. That leads me to believe (and hope that) obsessing over calories/protein is unnecessary. Discussions of protein intake that are centered around body building (bulk) and not athletic performance may not be as useful, and as stated earlier, may lead to thinking more is needed.

Anecdotally, I have heard from a lot of fat, out of shape people that eating meat is very important and manly To add some more confusion, I have been nearly full vegetarian for my whole training career (I do eat salmon a few times/month), so I can't compare recovery times. I don't improve on the hangboard anymore, but have made recent gains on the campus board and often feel very peppy/powerful during this phase of training, relatively speaking of course.

FWIW, I feel that taking creatine after training is at least a great recovery placebo, which may be as important to your following training session as counting calories. I do also take a pea or whey shake immediately following a workout and then casein just before bed as well.

[dsm]

I'm vegetarian (leaning vegan but still eat dairy more often than I'd like to), but up until a year ago I was eating seafood still. I have never noticed a difference in my training or recovery time based on whether I was getting my protein from meat vs plant sources (soy, seeds, nuts).

For me, I think recovery time really just gets worse with age, like hangovers. I treat working out hard like a night out drinking: I eat plenty of food right after, drink lots of water, and try and sleep.

Lately, I also have started trying to leave the gym with a bit of energy left also. Like, I probably could do another problem or two, but I don't. I think this has helped a lot, just trying to keep in mind the recovery hole you're digging if you have another hard workout schedule in a day or two.

I've heard a lot of people say post workout protein shakes help with recovery. The logical part of my mind thinks a protein shake is just a food and eating food probably will do the same thing as drinking a protein shake, but the other part of my mind wants to spend the money and try it. Maybe it's just the placebo effect, but who cares?

[erick]

Follow up,

I think that a lot of what I was feeling was my body just adusting to my new diet. I was mostly feeling back to normal after a few weeks and now I feel GREAT! I also seem to have lost about 3 pounds which I think is connected to dropping my salt intake. I did change a few things about my diet though. I increased the amount of beans I have been eating as well as adding more fat by throwing in extra avocados or guac into a lot of my foods. On the mornings when I do a workout before work I do make a protein shake. I have been using the gnarly vegan protein stuff and I add half a frozen banana, flax seeds, and almond milk. Very tasty, and it is quite filling. I don't think I needed the extra protein in general and use the shake mostly because its quick and easy. If I have time after a workout I would prefer to make a meal out of whole foods though.

[jrblack]

Slightly off topic, Eric, but have you checked out Mani the Monkey on youtube?

[erick]

Nov 12, 2017 20:15:01 GMT -7 jrblack said:

Slightly off topic, Eric, but have you checked out Mani the Monkey on youtube?

Nope!

[jrblack]

Nov 13, 2017 14:06:09 GMT -7 erick said:

Nov 12, 2017 20:15:01 GMT -7 jrblack said:

Slightly off topic, Eric, but have you checked out Mani the Monkey on youtube?

Nope!

Give him a look!  He does quality videos about "vegan rockclimbing" mixing together diet and training info.  Seems pretty intelligent and overall well-done... and doesn't contradict much of what the A. brothers teach in their book.

[Bast]

Hey everybody,

As I didn't want to start a new thread, I'm posting my question here :

I will start soon my new training season, and in contrast with the past and being a vegetarian, I'm wondering about taking protein supplements, mostly after strength workouts (at least).
I'm eating mostly vegetables, eggs sometimes, cheese. No meat at all.

For some reasons I can't take whey powder (I'm intolerant to lactose), so I'm wondering about plant protein powder (soy, hemp, pea, pumpkin...).
Did somebody try them ? Are they worth it
What would be the most interesting one for gaining strength and helping the recovery process ?

Thanks for your help !

[Chris W]

Can't answer your questions directly, but from personal experience, getting enough protein in your diet is pretty important. Supplementation can be an easy way to get the extra protein. When I was in college, I went from a protein poor diet to adding a protein supplement, just an extra 20g per day, and I gained a massive amount of strength and 10 pounds of lean muscle in a single semester. (not that you want to gain a lot of weight as a climber, but I wasn't a climber then and trained differently)

Gnarly seems to have a vegan option

[dsm]

I'm vegetarian, still having occasional dairy, but I don't take any supplements. I just eat/drink protein rich stuff. Lately, I put my money towards buying seeds (roasted pumpkin I like most).

I've read studies that say really the body can only optimally use ~30g protein at any one sitting, so I just try to eat ~30g at every meal, and have snacks with protein in it scattered through the day.

My main problem with supplements are (1) some have been found with weird stuff in them, such as heavy metals, etc. as they are not stricly regulated. (2) They are relatively expensive. (3) They mostly taste like shit. (4) If one eats/drinks real food, they can reap the gains not just of protein, but also of whatever other nutrition that food has to offer.

[Bast]

Thanks for your replies !

I was thinking about some pea proteins (https://www.forceultranature.com/fr/proteines-vegetales/318-proteine-pois-vanille-eden-origine.html) like this.
Organic stuff, no additives except a bit of coconut sugar.
I don't think I can handle the whole shaker thing...

But yeah, it might taste like ****

[cozisco]

Have you tried tracking your macros at all? I've been 98% vegan for 4 years (I still eat eggs and still wear leather -- no way could I give up my Testarossas) and used MyFitnessPal for the first time this past training cycle -- I'd highly recommend it.

I was previously consuming ~20% protein but found good results by increasing my diet to ~30% protein (ie, I was lighter, leaner and had more even energy levels). Tofu (5% carbs, 56% fat and 40% protein) and eggs (5% carbs, 58% fat and 36% protein) are OK, but I've had better success with leaner proteins like seitan (26% carbs, 5% fat, 69% protein) and vegan protein powder (depends on the brand, but 0% fat, 21% carbs and 79% protein).

As for specific brands, I really like SunWarrior. It actually tastes good. A lot of other people I know like Vega, but I've found it has too gritty of a taste for me.

[jetjackson]

Coming into this thread late, I read the first post and immediate thought was that Erick should track the Macros over a few weeks. Anyone who is thinking about taking protein powder should have measured their macros first, otherwise it's the equivalent of 'taking medication before diagnosing the issue'.