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Post by alexandra on Jan 31, 2017 15:38:48 GMT -7
I am looking to buy a new pair of climbing shoes as both of my old pairs are falling apart at the moment. I have only ever used La Sportiva shoes: I climb in Pythons in the gym and on problems outside that don't require any significant heel hooks and I also have a pair of testarossas which I LOVE when heel hooking but they are a bit insecure on the toe hooks and also a bit more uncomfortable.
I am looking for a high performance shoe, especially one with solid heel hooking capacity as well as solid toe hooks. I was going to either buy a new pair of testarossas or I was looking into the new Genius model. Anyone has experience and can compare the two? Or any other shoe to recommend that matches the Testarossa heel hook and perhaps is better on edging/smearing/toe hooking? thanks!
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Post by korduroy on Feb 1, 2017 5:33:55 GMT -7
If you are looking for a heel cup similar to that of the testarossa, but with the edging and toe-hook capabilities of the python and then some, I would suggest looking into the Skwama. The heel cup is shaped and angled in the same manner as the testarossa, but with La Sportiva's "new" S-Heel which provides better compression along your actual heel to prevent foot slipping. Additionally, if you enjoy the slipper nature of the pythons, then you will enjoy the Skwama. The entire toe area is wrapped in rubber, making it ideal for toe hooks.
The Genius's are not a bad option either. I found that my heel (Achilles area) didn't fit as comfortably in them as they did in the Skwama, which is why I recently ordered the Skwamas.
Hope this helps
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Post by willblack on Feb 1, 2017 7:47:53 GMT -7
I own the testarossas and the skwama, and have tried the genius. To me, the genius felt like nothing special, it honestly felt like a medium-performance shoe that didn't fit my foot super well. I've had 3 pairs of testarossas, and I think they are the best climbing shoe I have ever worn. They are just generally awesome shoes. My only gripe is that they obviously don't toe hook well, but I suck at toe hooking anyway so it doesn't matter. The skwamas are okay. I recommend buying them super super tight, because they will stretch out and get comfy within a couple sessions. I originally thought I got mine too small but after the short break-in period they feel great. They are a little softer than the testarossas, so they might be better for really steep routes with big holds that require a lot of "grabbing" with the toes, and they are better for toe hooking and maybe slightly better at smearing. That being said, the heel is huge and I have a low volume foot so I can't heel hook in them at all. Also, I feel like on most rock types we spend a lot more time just standing on small footholds than anything else and this is where the Testarossa, in my opinion, clearly beats out those other two shoes. Also, all of this is based on my specific foot so you should really try to try the shoes on yourself.
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Post by alexandra on Feb 1, 2017 11:32:41 GMT -7
thanks guys! how would you size the skwamas and the genius relative to the testarossas? My testarossas are size 36, but it took me a few months to not need to cry from pain every time I put them on. Now they have stretched a bit, but only to the point where I can wear them for one boulder problem at a time (and they feel like they fit great) but then I have to immediately take them off on the ground right after. Should I downsize more for the skwamas/genius? my pythons are also 36, but they immediately fit and they are even pretty loose on the heel (often when I do hard heel hooks my shoe comes off, so I pretty much never wear them when I have to heel hook).
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Post by willblack on Feb 1, 2017 11:38:17 GMT -7
My testarossas are 41, and my skwamas are 40.5. The Skwamas feel a bit more comfortable, but I doubt I could go down another half size without them being too tight. Like I said, if there's any way you could try them on beforehand that would probably be beneficial but I overall I think most people size them down a little more than other similar sportiva shoes.
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Post by ehowell on Feb 1, 2017 14:59:10 GMT -7
I have the Testarossa and Genius as my two go-to shoes for sport and bouldering. I climbed in the Future for several years, so I'm accustomed to the no-edge thing. If you're not, it will take some getting used to.
For me though, I would never have one or the other. I think they both have their niche. For instance, forget wearing the Genius on pockety limestone. The soles are soft and the toe box is too wide. However, on "smedgy" granite, the Genius is awesome. The heel is also much improved from the Futura.
I sized the Genius down 1/2 size from the Testarossa. They're quite comfy! If you are in lots of pain with the Testarossa's, maybe just stick with the same size.
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Post by alexandra on Feb 1, 2017 16:01:51 GMT -7
has any of you had experience with the solutions as well? If I had to stick with testarossas and one more shoe, which of the three (solutions, genius, skwamas) are a better overall shoe that combine good heel and toe hook? I don't climb much on granite or slab, so smearing is less of an issue for me usually.
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Post by Chris W on Feb 2, 2017 4:09:41 GMT -7
Alexandra, just a couple of my thoughts. I tend to be "brand loyal" to a fault. I climbed with 5.10 shoes for several years because they were the first I had and I heard their rubber was "the best". I used the Anasazi and the Jet 7, both of which fit pretty well but not perfectly. the Anasazi fit well except for the heel and the Jet 7 had a good heel but pinched my toes. I switched to Tenaya and love them.
1) If a shoe doesn't fit well everywhere, don't be afraid to try another style or brand
2) The easiest place to try new shoes is at a good climbing shop, like good old Waterstone Outdoors at the NRG
3) If you don't have a shop around, you can try calling the shoe manufacturers to ask them to send you several pairs in several sizes. You can try them all on and send back the ones you don't want. Sometimes they will include a label for free shipping for the returns.
Good luck finding new shoes!
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Post by korduroy on Feb 2, 2017 5:33:21 GMT -7
I used the Anasazi and the Jet 7 ahhh the Jet7s and the V10s....two shoes I wish would return. To answer your other question Alexandra, I currently use the Katana lace (for trad/multipitch) and the Solutions for sport/bouldering. (Skwamas for bouldering only). I like the solutions, and find that they work well on dime edges, heel hooking and toe hooking. I have even climbed splitters AND smeared my way up North Conway granite in them. I will say however, that the heel cup on the solution takes some time getting used to, as it is not as rubberized up the back of the heel and Achilles tendon as other shoes, namely the testarossa. As others have mentioned, definitely try on pairs. I spent two months going back and forth to Rock and Snow in NY with my girlfriend to try shoes on for her (she wore Cobras size 34.5). She was close to getting the Skwamas, and wound up loving the Butora Acro. If I recall correctly, you mentioned being in the Bay Area. When I was last out there, Dogpatch Boulders had a TON of shoes in various sizes. That might be a good spot to check out. Side note – La Sportiva re-released the Cobras in Europe!!! And in various colors
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Post by ehowell on Feb 2, 2017 6:56:24 GMT -7
Alexandra, just a couple of my thoughts. I tend to be "brand loyal" to a fault. I climbed with 5.10 shoes for several years because they were the first I had and I heard their rubber was "the best". I used the Anasazi and the Jet 7, both of which fit pretty well but not perfectly. the Anasazi fit well except for the heel and the Jet 7 had a good heel but pinched my toes. I switched to Tenaya and love them. 1) If a shoe doesn't fit well everywhere, don't be afraid to try another style or brand 2) The easiest place to try new shoes is at a good climbing shop, like good old Waterstone Outdoors at the NRG 3) If you don't have a shop around, you can try calling the shoe manufacturers to ask them to send you several pairs in several sizes. You can try them all on and send back the ones you don't want. Sometimes they will include a label for free shipping for the returns. Good luck finding new shoes! All great points. I've been pretty brand loyal to Sportiva for several years, but I've nearly fired on the Tenaya. I've heard great things. I also nearly fired on the Scarpa Instinct's, which also have great reviews. I tried a pair on and they're quite aggressive, but admittedly not very comfortable (at least out of the box). I've had other Scarpa's in the past and was very pleased.
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Post by MarkAnderson on Feb 2, 2017 12:09:55 GMT -7
I have an OT question... I haven't climbed in any of the shoes described here (for contractual reasons, haha). I used to be a huge fan of the Muiras and Katanas, although my experiences are now quite dated. Has La Sportiva technology improved sooo much that one pair of shoes is the best-ever at tufa cave climbing and also the best-ever at dime edging? La Sportiva's Genius website says "No-Edge™ Technology delivers unparalleled edging performance on the rock". Really? Unparalleled? So the Genius would be everyone's first choice for To Bolt Or Not To Be? I find this incredibly hard to believe. I watched the video of the Genius and they look terrible for (truly challenging) edging. FWIW, the other statements on the page are totally absurd* ("Lace-up comfort makes this shoe fit every type of foot"), so I should probably just disregard all of it.
To get slightly on topic, I firmly believe you need a quiver of shoes. There is no one shoe that is the best at everything. For example, high-performance edging requires a tight, knuckled-up toe box, whereas steep roof climbing typical benefits from a loose or flexible toebox where you can "grab" and wrap your toes around features. I don't see how you can have both, at the highest levels, in one shoe. Does it matter? I knew a climber who couldn't edge at all because his shoes weren't designed for it, so he never bothered to learn how (the person I'm thinking of climbed exclusively in Cobras).
(*I imagine there is just as much nonsense on Tenaya's marketing pages)
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Post by ehowell on Feb 2, 2017 12:17:24 GMT -7
I have an OT question... I haven't climbed in any of the shoes described here (for contractual reasons, haha). I used to be a huge fan of the Muiras and Katanas, although my experiences are now quite dated. Has La Sportiva technology improved sooo much that one pair of shoes is the best-ever at tufa cave climbing and also the best-ever at dime edging? La Sportiva's Genius website says "No-Edge™ Technology delivers unparalleled edging performance on the rock". Really? Unparalleled? So the Genius would be everyone's first choice for To Bolt Or Not To Be? I find this incredibly hard to believe. I watched the video of the Genius and they look terrible for (truly challenging) edging. FWIW, the other statements on the page are totally absurd* ("Lace-up comfort makes this shoe fit every type of foot"), so I should probably just disregard all of it. To get slightly on topic, I firmly believe you need a quiver of shoes. There is no one shoe that is the best at everything. For example, high-performance edging requires a tight, knuckled-up toe box, whereas steep roof climbing typical benefits from a loose or flexible toebox where you can "grab" and wrap your toes around features. I don't see how you can have both, at the highest levels, in one shoe. Does it matter? I knew a climber who couldn't edge at all because his shoes weren't designed for it, so he never bothered to learn how (the person I'm thinking of climbed exclusively in Cobras). (*I imagine there is just as much nonsense on Tenaya's marketing pages) Yeah, the unparalleled edging is nonsense. I'm in complete agreement, I'd never wear the Genius on To Bolt, but then again I'll probably never wear any shoe on that route! The no-edge shoe is great for the terrain you described -- steep climbing where grabbing is necessary. I like them for a lot of climbs in CCC, but would never wear them at Shelf or Smith. I'm also a fan of Katana's. I wear them for techy hard Eldo stuff mostly, but they're great for vertical climbing of any sort. I have a friend who wears them for everything and climbs harder than me!
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Post by ehowell on Feb 2, 2017 12:23:31 GMT -7
Honestly, the best application for the no-edge shoe might be the gym. Nothing worse than ruining the edge on a performance shoe on highly textured gym walls.
Just find a deal, because they ain't cheap!
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Post by MarkAnderson on Feb 2, 2017 12:40:09 GMT -7
Just find a deal, because they ain't cheap! Ya, I was just thinking "trashing a $195 shoe on the cheese-grater Earth Treks walls? No way!"
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Post by ehowell on Feb 2, 2017 12:46:01 GMT -7
For sure! But at least with the no-edge shoes, the "edge" will last forever, probably even in Earth Treks. I've had them eventually delaminate, but never wear through. The beauty is that you're already starting with a rounded edge.
I paid $85 with a 20% off coupon and a gift certificate. Otherwise they wouldn't be in my quiver!
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