Question about disparity between open hand and half-crimp

[octopus]

I've gone through 2 cycles of RCTM's repeater protocols, one beginner and one intermediate. For my final workout, I was hanging -15lbs open handed on a 13mm edge, but -50lbs half-crimped on an 18mm edge. I tested the max hangs as well (13s), and I can hang 25lbs on the 13mm open handed, but only 20lbs half-crimped on the 18mm. I run out of weights if I open-hand the 18mm.

This seems like a huge disparity for me, but I don't really have any numbers to compare with. Is anyone else inline with these numbers or is the 90 degree joint angle a weakness I need to work on?

[Jon]

I have/had a similar issue. I partially teared my A2 a few years into climbing and really focused on climbing open handed for several years. As I progressed to higher grades, I noticed that I could open hand hang significantly more than I could half crimp. Probably similar disparity to what you listed. I started focusing more on half crimp training last year and have closed the gap some, but my open hand hangs are still a bit stronger. I think this increased focus on half-crimping really helped with my upper end bouldering and I plan to continue to focus on half-crimping more this year.

I would recommend prioritizing half-crimping in your workout and then just be patient for the gains to come. It does take time.

Good luck!

[tedwelser]

The lever arm is more favorable for both open hand, and semi open than for half or full crimp, so one should expect an underlying advantage for the more open grips. Besides that, I would think a slow ramping up of your crimp related grips will eventually show progress.

I guess I never worried about the relative strength between different grips-- I just try to improve at the ones that seem most helpful and relevant to my climbing goals.

Finally, in terms of a fully open grip, I don't understand how you can use it on small edges, unless you are just speaking of IMR. If my pinky is involved the edge has to be sorta deep or I have to at least do a semi crimp. 

[octopus]

Thanks for the affirmation, Jon and Ted.

Dec 14, 2016 14:58:55 GMT -7 tedwelser said:

Finally, in terms of a fully open grip, I don't understand how you can use it on small edges, unless you are just speaking of IMR. If my pinky is involved the edge has to be sorta deep or I have to at least do a semi crimp. 

For the small edge open-hand, my pinky is clinging straight while the middle's PIP is about 140 degrees and the DIP at about 165 degrees. It definitely has the open-hand feel with the finger pads being peeled and the weight bearing on the A1 tendon rather than the A3 and forearms. Maybe everyone else calls it a semi-crimp, but it has the same distinct feeling as a 3-finger drag but with the pinky added for stability.

[tedwelser]

Dec 14, 2016 19:30:55 GMT -7 octopus said:

Thanks for the affirmation, Jon and Ted.

Dec 14, 2016 14:58:55 GMT -7 tedwelser said:

Finally, in terms of a fully open grip, I don't understand how you can use it on small edges, unless you are just speaking of IMR. If my pinky is involved the edge has to be sorta deep or I have to at least do a semi crimp. 

For the small edge open-hand, my pinky is clinging straight while the middle's PIP is about 140 degrees and the DIP at about 165 degrees. It definitely has the open-hand feel with the finger pads being peeled and the weight bearing on the A1 tendon rather than the A3 and forearms. Maybe everyone else calls it a semi-crimp, but it has the same distinct feeling as a 3-finger drag but with the pinky added for stability.

The image on this page shows the full crimp, half crimp, chisel, and open. 
www.beastmaker.co.uk/pages/training

Does your "open" look like the chisel in the photo?

I think the RCTM calls the chisel the semi crimp, and does not really discuss the half crimp.  However, the slopey crimp on the Forge engages my hand pretty similarly to the half crimp, so that is where I train that configuration. One reason I don't train a half crimp directly is that it does not feel like a natural position to hold while the slimper grip is similar to many small edges with thumb bumps that I run into outdoors.  (you get opposition between your pinky and thumb)

I think it is worth it to train, at a minimum, the chisel and the open.  I tend to do all 4 with the full crimp on the Forge Crimp, the half (better yet or similar enough?) on the Forge slimper, the chisel on the SVDER, and the open or drag on my IM and MR pockets.  I warm up the open drag on the square edge, and the pinch involves an open grip.  

[octopus]

Interesting. I am in fact using the chisel grip. I'm more used to the grips defined here: www.climbstrong.com/articles/20130122_1

I guess the semi-closed crimp/chisel just does not feeling like crimping to me whatsoever. The logic behind the half-crimp is that it's a less injury-prong grip that allows better directional loading than the chisel. I think it also translates somewhat to the full crimp.

[scojo]

Dec 15, 2016 19:23:52 GMT -7 octopus said:

Interesting. I am in fact using the chisel grip. I'm more used to the grips defined here: www.climbstrong.com/articles/20130122_1

I guess the semi-closed crimp/chisel just does not feeling like crimping to me whatsoever. The logic behind the half-crimp is that it's a less injury-prong grip that allows better directional loading than the chisel. I think it also translates somewhat to the full crimp.

I will add that a lot of times when you are dead pointing a hold, you probably use something similar to the half crimp to latch the hold before curling it up into a full crimp.

[MarkAnderson]

Dec 15, 2016 19:37:02 GMT -7 scojo said:

I will add that a lot of times when you are dead pointing a hold, you probably use something similar to the half crimp to latch the hold before curling it up into a full crimp.

I'm usually in a "Semi-Closed Crimp" when latching dynos. I think it depends a bit on edge depth, but for 1-pad or smaller edges, I would argue SCC is the best/safest way to latch. YMMV.