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Post by climber511 on Oct 29, 2016 9:25:23 GMT -7
I know going in there is no real answer for this question but generally speaking What grade climb can you just walk up to and pretty much "know" you can send it? What grade climb can you work for lets just say 5 or 6 times and send it? Working a route for weeks or months is never going to happen for me so ........ I don't care so much about the numbers themselves - just the difference between the two.
I've only worked one route over a couple tries in my life so I don't have much to relate to here.
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Post by boone on Oct 31, 2016 4:32:37 GMT -7
it really all depends....
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Post by Chris W on Oct 31, 2016 5:51:29 GMT -7
I'm trying to get a sense for this myself. My long term climbing goal is to be able to walk up to any 5.12 and send it in 1-3 goes. As you mentioned, I know there is no real answer to the question, but I feel like I'd need to be able to drive my redpoint level into the hard 5.13 range to accomplish this. I've currently redpointed 5.12 at home (likely 5.12b since I'm skeptical the grades are a bit inflated at my home crag) and redpointed 5.12a away from home for the first time ever two weeks ago.
I'm trying to accomplish this by becoming as strong as possible in my "youth" (I'll be 34 in January and I'm seeing steady strength gains hangboarding). I figure it should be easier, relatively, to build endurance than strength and power when I'm older. I'm also counting on being able to climb "smarter" as I age, refining technique and exposing myself to more rock and more varied terrain over time. When I get old and brittle, I'm hoping to be able to draw from a library of moves and past experience to help accomplish my goals.
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Post by alexandra on Oct 31, 2016 9:18:56 GMT -7
For me I think it is a bit different than others, because the "obvious" beta rarely works due to my height... I am 5.3 ... so even for climbs that are way below my limit, sometimes it takes me many many tries to figure out the right beta (but for those climbs, once I do figure it out, I can repeat them back to back and they feel easy). But on average, I would say 2-3 boulder grades would be the difference for me. (Onsight V4 unless there is some super height dependent move and work/ocasionally succeed on V6-V7).
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Post by erick on Oct 31, 2016 9:39:13 GMT -7
3 to 4 letter grades. I onsite 12a/b redpoint 12d or 13a if I'm super badass that dad.
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Post by daustin on Oct 31, 2016 10:02:25 GMT -7
The conventional wisdom is that redpoint is 1 number grade above your average onsight ability. So if you regularly onsight 5.11a, you can reasonably expect to redpoint 5.12a.
I don't know where this wisdom came from, and obviously it's extremely simplistic and generalized and therefore misses all sorts of nuances, but if you take it with a grain of salt I don't think it's a terrible rule of thumb for most climbers.
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Post by Charlie S on Oct 31, 2016 12:26:49 GMT -7
Huge onsight/redpoint discrepancy for me. Onsighting mid 5.10s on a standard day. Can muster a 5.11 onsight on a really good day but it's rare. Meanwhile, redpointing 5.12c currently. Style plays a lot too.
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erk
Junior Member
Posts: 83
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Post by erk on Nov 1, 2016 13:15:09 GMT -7
I think you can expect a large discrepancy if you are big on projecting. I've redpointed 13c and just did my first 12a onsight. I think it's mostly because I don't focus on onsighting. Onsighting requires a lot of skill i.e. being able to just go for it, not getting too spooked above a bolt, making quick decisions, etc... Projecting is all about making the route as comfortable and familiar as possible. And as soon as you get on something unfamiliar there is a lot more holding you back than just the grade of the climb.
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Post by climber511 on Nov 1, 2016 19:54:52 GMT -7
I read about the grades you all climb and I feel like I feel pretty bad sometimes. But if there are these big differences in the way you work routes and the numbers you post - then what I'm comparing when I look at my climbs may not be as far off as it seems sometimes. Because my numbers are based on just walking up to a route - putting on my shoes etc and taking off. Thanks fellows - I feel a little better about things now.
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Post by tedwelser on Nov 1, 2016 20:12:45 GMT -7
When I was in my 20's my best onsight/flash level was a handful of 12b's, and my best redpoint level was 13a. For boulder problems it was V5 and V8.
Now that I am in my 40's my best flash/onsight is 12a and my best redpoint currently is 12b, all of which were second try. I have not had any luck with longer redpoints recently, I just can't get the consistent time to put in lots of attempts. I also think that I have learned a lot about getting the most out of my current strength levels, and I think I manage my mentality well to get really up for crucial attempts.
It is also true that I have gotten on some thin face 12a's and thought, it will be a long time before I can do this route. So, I think a big part of ones seeming capacity has to do with route selection and avoiding things that really play to your weaknesses.
I wonder if this is an experience thing, where I have gotten better at putting in good ascents early in the learning process, or, if it reveals more of a limitation in my power reserves, and if I boost up my power I will be able to take better advantage of incremental improvements on harder things.
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Post by climber511 on Nov 1, 2016 21:01:04 GMT -7
When I was in my 20's my best onsight/flash level was a handful of 12b's, and my best redpoint level was 13a. For boulder problems it was V5 and V8. Now that I am in my 40's my best flash/onsight is 12a and my best redpoint currently is 12b, all of which were second try. I have not had any luck with longer redpoints recently, I just can't get the consistent time to put in lots of attempts. I also think that I have learned a lot about getting the most out of my current strength levels, and I think I manage my mentality well to get really up for crucial attempts. It is also true that I have gotten on some thin face 12a's and thought, it will be a long time before I can do this route. So, I think a big part of ones seeming capacity has to do with route selection and avoiding things that really play to your weaknesses. I wonder if this is an experience thing, where I have gotten better at putting in good ascents early in the learning process, or, if it reveals more of a limitation in my power reserves, and if I boost up my power I will be able to take better advantage of incremental improvements on harder things. Ted - yeah the age thing is definitely showing it's ugly head for me now. I did my best climbing in the mid to late 80s when I was 37 or 38 maybe. So pretty much 30 years of experience lets me read routes better but my physical abilities have diminished and I climb so much less now than then that my endurance - well it sucks and I feel it is my biggest weakness. I think the information in the book and a "plan" that includes a lot more climbing than I've done the last few years should help a lot - we shall see. I'll get a fair numbers jump simply going from trad to sport I think. If you didn't see it I invited you to my Grip contest Dec 10 at my gym here in Crooksville. You might find it interesting and I'd love to meet you.
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Post by tedwelser on Nov 2, 2016 12:40:41 GMT -7
When I was in my 20's my best onsight/flash level was a handful of 12b's, and my best redpoint level was 13a. For boulder problems it was V5 and V8. Now that I am in my 40's my best flash/onsight is 12a and my best redpoint currently is 12b, all of which were second try. I have not had any luck with longer redpoints recently, I just can't get the consistent time to put in lots of attempts. I also think that I have learned a lot about getting the most out of my current strength levels, and I think I manage my mentality well to get really up for crucial attempts. It is also true that I have gotten on some thin face 12a's and thought, it will be a long time before I can do this route. So, I think a big part of ones seeming capacity has to do with route selection and avoiding things that really play to your weaknesses. I wonder if this is an experience thing, where I have gotten better at putting in good ascents early in the learning process, or, if it reveals more of a limitation in my power reserves, and if I boost up my power I will be able to take better advantage of incremental improvements on harder things. Ted - yeah the age thing is definitely showing it's ugly head for me now. I did my best climbing in the mid to late 80s when I was 37 or 38 maybe. So pretty much 30 years of experience lets me read routes better but my physical abilities have diminished and I climb so much less now than then that my endurance - well it sucks and I feel it is my biggest weakness. I think the information in the book and a "plan" that includes a lot more climbing than I've done the last few years should help a lot - we shall see. I'll get a fair numbers jump simply going from trad to sport I think. If you didn't see it I invited you to my Grip contest Dec 10 at my gym here in Crooksville. You might find it interesting and I'd love to meet you. Hey Chris! The grip context idea sounds interesting- I will see if I can get a group of folks to come out for that. I agree it would be great to meet! Can you resend the invite on FB-- there is a chance you sent it to my dad, of the same name!
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Post by ehowell on Nov 2, 2016 13:43:53 GMT -7
I think you can expect a large discrepancy if you are big on projecting. I've redpointed 13c and just did my first 12a onsight. I think it's mostly because I don't focus on onsighting. Onsighting requires a lot of skill i.e. being able to just go for it, not getting too spooked above a bolt, making quick decisions, etc... Projecting is all about making the route as comfortable and familiar as possible. And as soon as you get on something unfamiliar there is a lot more holding you back than just the grade of the climb. This is basically the deal for me. In general I've kept at a 4-letter-grade discrepancy between OS and RP grades, but as I've gotten more into projecting over the last three years the gap has widened. I'm currently at about 5 letter grades different, but similar to what's said above, I don't spend a lot of time trying to improve my onsight grade. I basically only do onsight attempts on new routes or when I'm out of town.
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Post by climber511 on Nov 2, 2016 14:04:39 GMT -7
www.facebook.com/events/1728595754070935/ Ted - here's the link to the FB page for the grip contest. Starts at 10AM - will run until 3 or 4 (we'll eat and then the real fun starts after that as we all start doing the oddball things. Bending horseshoes and steel - tearing decks of cards and phone books - driving nails through a board with our hands etc etc. Be some Campus Board action I'm sure (you all can show off there . Plus you can play on my little climbing wall here in my gym (garage) if you like (only 8' x 11.5' and not steep). I see a lot of questions on this forum about pinch strength - in my opinion you have never seen the pinch strength you will see here at this contest.
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Post by climber511 on Nov 2, 2016 14:10:15 GMT -7
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