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Post by climber511 on Oct 16, 2016 7:12:24 GMT -7
I need a little help on finding a new climbing shoe. Things to consider • 32 year climbing veteran – so I’m old also • I wear a size 13 street shoe • I weigh 195# • My foot muscles are not extremely strong (stiffer climbing shoes for years) – one of the purposes in buying these new shoes is to strengthen my feet to allow me to use something somewhat softer with the sport climbing in mind. I normally climb multi pitch trad with TC Pros or another stiffer semi flat toed model. I’m planning a trip to Greece to sport climb next fall and plan to train with that trip in mind so I have a year really to reach my goals. While I know the TC Pros would work fine – there are probably advantages to using a more aggressive model with a more pointy toe for Limestone. One big cravat is the large size needed – many of the aggressive shoes aren’t available large enough to get on my foot. I recently tried on a pair of Tenaya Oasi shoes – the fit was incredible (Tatankas didn't fit) – what’s your opinion of this shoe for the purpose of training for stronger feet – and pocket limestone? Fit has always been the way I chose a climbing shoe but within the “type” shoe I desired. So I don’t know a lot about the more aggressive climbing shoe choices except “fit” is still king I think. I’ve been primarily a trad climber for a long time but the goal is to try a year of clipping bolts with learning to climb harder routes this coming year. The training plan is pretty much just the RCTM scheme along with training for therapy purposes for an old low back injury. Walk me through your opinions on the subject. And Yes I do know it's not the shoes that make the climber - but the right tool for the job doesn't hurt anything either.
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Post by Chris W on Oct 17, 2016 5:13:50 GMT -7
I used to wear 5.10 but didn't feel like they fit well. I switched to Tenaya because I wanted to be just like Mike and Mark and I love them (the shoes, don't get the wrong idea). My feet are small, size 8.5 street shoe. They are slightly wider than average, but not wide enough to wear wide street shoes. I have a normal arch. I'm about 5'10" and 155lbs at fighting weight.
-I feel like my feet are strong from ARCing on tiny foot holds standing on my toes. A lot of my foot holds, especially on my vertical wall and 15 wall are e-grips sandstone edges and sandstone rails screw on holds. I don't feel like my shoe choice affected my foot strength, but I could be wrong. I primarily ARC now in my Tenaya Ra's.
-I tried the Oasi, but felt like they pinched my forefoot a bit too much and were hard to get on my foot.
-I love my Tarifas, and feel like they I can be very precise in foot and toe placement, on vertical and overhanging rock. They fit my feet extremely well. I feel like I can pull with my feet well with the Tarifas as well as I could with the Oasis.
-I've never climbed on limestone, but would love to some day. I primarily climb on tiny foot holds on slightly overhanging rock (10-15 degrees overhanging). I love my Tarifa's for that. I've also climbed steeper rock at the New River Gorge and on my 35 wall in my barn in my Tarifa's, and I feel like they work well for that also.
-I called the Trango guys and spoke to Adam when picking out shoes. He was super helpful and I would recommend it.
-I'm younger than you; 33 years old (34 in January)
Hope that helps you some.
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Post by climber511 on Oct 17, 2016 6:47:25 GMT -7
ChrisW - I have a pair of the Masai and a pair of Ra's. Both are fit totally flat toes and are very comfortable. It's not often I get the chance to actually try on climbing shoes - with my big feet I usually have to mail order a few pairs and only keep the best fit (if any of them fit!). I got a chance to try on both the Oasi and Tatankas recently and the Oasi was like coming home so to speak as to fit. But they didn't have the perfect size in stock for the new sport climbing goal (somewhat bent toes) or I would have bought them then. So I figured asking on here might give me some additional thoughts - Thank You. I hope someone here actually uses the Oasis and can chime in as well. The idea of using softer shoes to strengthen my feet is my own but it makes sense in my little pea brain. I have a small ARC type wall in my garage and access to a bigger wall as well. I'm hoping to get down to Athens and visit Ted this winter for some steeper training and some tips.
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Post by climber511 on Oct 17, 2016 8:16:14 GMT -7
Iati - all the same questions?
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Post by MarkAnderson on Oct 17, 2016 12:17:57 GMT -7
Oasi's are a great shoe, but they aren't an edging shoe. It is possible to stand on some small holds in them, but they aren't designed for that. You can improve their small hold performance by down-sizing, and they will stretch a bit to conform to your feet. I do think that climbing in soft shoes can strengthen your feet/toes. It can also make you over-reliant on your hands (although I don't think that's a huge risk in a mature climber--more of a concern for beginners who haven't yet learned to use their feet).
I use Oasis for gym climbing, and for rock climbing that is similar to gym climbing (really steep, big footholds, where hooking and toeing in on holds is common). If you're going to Kalymnos, I would think, based on photos, that Oasis would be ideal for that type of terrain.
Iati's are much stiffer than Oasis. I like them too, but if I'm doing pure gym-style climbing (as described above) I still prefer Oasis. Iatis are a good choice for terrain that it is a cross between edging and gymnastic climbing. For standing in tiny pockets, I would imagine Iatis would perform better, but I think Oasis would be more helpful for strengthening your feet in an artificial setting. The fit is very similar, so you could probably size them the same as Oasis. However, bottom line, you'd tried and liked Oasis, so I would just recommend that you go with those.
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Post by climber511 on Oct 17, 2016 12:24:01 GMT -7
Thanks Mark. Looks like Oasi's for the winter training season and then see about the Iati after that if I need/want more stiffness/edging down the road.
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Post by climber511 on Oct 17, 2016 12:30:14 GMT -7
Oasi's are a great shoe, but they aren't an edging shoe. It is possible to stand on some small holds in them, but they aren't designed for that. You can improve their small hold performance by down-sizing, and they will stretch a bit to conform to your feet. I do think that climbing in soft shoes can strengthen your feet/toes. It can also make you over-reliant on your hands (although I don't think that's a huge risk in a mature climber--more of a concern for beginners who haven't yet learned to use their feet). I use Oasis for gym climbing, and for rock climbing that is similar to gym climbing (really steep, big footholds, where hooking and toeing in on holds is common). If you're going to Kalymnos, I would think, based on photos, that Oasis would be ideal for that type of terrain. Iati's are much stiffer than Oasis. I like them too, but if I'm doing pure gym-style climbing (as described above) I still prefer Oasis. Iatis are a good choice for terrain that it is a cross between edging and gymnastic climbing. For standing in tiny pockets, I would imagine Iatis would perform better, but I think Oasis would be more helpful for strengthening your feet in an artificial setting. The fit is very similar, so you could probably size them the same as Oasis. However, bottom line, you'd tried and liked Oasis, so I would just recommend that you go with those. Mark how much stretch do you get usually when you downsize and how aggressive are you talking about downsizing? I have Maisi and Ra and got no real stretch because I fit them flat toed to start with. Keep in mind please that I don't climb anywhere close to your level .
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Post by Otis. on Oct 18, 2016 11:02:39 GMT -7
I wear a size 12.5 street shoe and have extremely flat and narrow feet, so I also have had similar difficulties finding good aggressive shoes that fit well. I would highly recommend the Tenaya Iati's. If you are coming from the TC Pro's, the Iati's will be quite a bit softer and I found them to work better than the Oasi's on everything except for roof bouldering and even there they are close. I also like the closure system of the Iati over the Oasi and the overall fit in the heel. I would recommend trying out and comparing the Iati's and Oasi's and then making a decision. I now have two shoes that I use for all my climbing, my La Sportiva Miuras when I need a great edge and the Iati's for just about everything else.
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Post by climber511 on Oct 18, 2016 11:53:53 GMT -7
I wear a size 12.5 street shoe and have extremely flat and narrow feet, so I also have had similar difficulties finding good aggressive shoes that fit well. I would highly recommend the Tenaya Iati's. If you are coming from the TC Pro's, the Iati's will be quite a bit softer and I found them to work better than the Oasi's on everything except for roof bouldering and even there they are close. I also like the closure system of the Iati over the Oasi and the overall fit in the heel. I would recommend trying out and comparing the Iati's and Oasi's and then making a decision. I now have two shoes that I use for all my climbing, my La Sportiva Miuras when I need a great edge and the Iati's for just about everything else. Otis - what size Iati did you end up with - and how much if any stretch did you get if you downsized them?
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Post by Otis. on Oct 18, 2016 12:42:17 GMT -7
I have the 10.5 (44 Euro) in the Iati. They stretched about a quarter to half size. They were a bit tight at first, but now that they are broken in, they fit great. I can easily wear them through a full sport climbing pitch or two before feeling the desire to take them off. They're never really painful, but with any performance shoe, I wouldn't walk around in them for an extended time. I may also get a size 10 (43.5) in the future for a bit more of a pure bouldering shoe. I wear a size 43.5 in my La Sportiva Miuras. They have a similar fit, but the Iati is more aggressive and considerably softer. I've never tried the TC pro's, but have heard their sizing is comparable to Miuras, at least in length. Hope this helps.
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Post by climber511 on Oct 19, 2016 9:39:35 GMT -7
Going to try both and go with the best fit for my foot - Thanks to everyone.
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Post by climber511 on Oct 19, 2016 10:52:01 GMT -7
I have the 10.5 (44 Euro) in the Iati. They stretched about a quarter to half size. They were a bit tight at first, but now that they are broken in, they fit great. I can easily wear them through a full sport climbing pitch or two before feeling the desire to take them off. They're never really painful, but with any performance shoe, I wouldn't walk around in them for an extended time. I may also get a size 10 (43.5) in the future for a bit more of a pure bouldering shoe. I wear a size 43.5 in my La Sportiva Miuras. They have a similar fit, but the Iati is more aggressive and considerably softer. I've never tried the TC pro's, but have heard their sizing is comparable to Miuras, at least in length. Hope this helps. One area I'm having trouble with is that I haven't owned any shoes with a sport climbing fit - everything has been flat toes or very slightly bent. Not real sure just how tight they need to be really for a softer more aggressive model to perform. On the one hand people keep saying they downsize a couple whole sizes and others say not to make them "too" tight. I'll just try them and see I guess. I'm not into some kind of Japanese foot binding thing but do want to get the most out of them.
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Post by Otis. on Oct 19, 2016 11:19:00 GMT -7
I have the 10.5 (44 Euro) in the Iati. They stretched about a quarter to half size. They were a bit tight at first, but now that they are broken in, they fit great. I can easily wear them through a full sport climbing pitch or two before feeling the desire to take them off. They're never really painful, but with any performance shoe, I wouldn't walk around in them for an extended time. I may also get a size 10 (43.5) in the future for a bit more of a pure bouldering shoe. I wear a size 43.5 in my La Sportiva Miuras. They have a similar fit, but the Iati is more aggressive and considerably softer. I've never tried the TC pro's, but have heard their sizing is comparable to Miuras, at least in length. Hope this helps. One area I'm having trouble with is that I haven't owned any shoes with a sport climbing fit - everything has been flat toes or very slightly bent. Not real sure just how tight they need to be really for a softer more aggressive model to perform. On the one hand people keep saying they downsize a couple whole sizes and others say not to make them "too" tight. I'll just try them and see I guess. I'm not into some kind of Japanese foot binding thing but do want to get the most out of them. Sizing is definitely a personal preference, but I think one of the best aspects of Tenaya's shoes are their focus on comfort, even in their performance shoe line. I am also not a fan of painful shoes, and found that the size 11 (44.5) Iati's would have worked OK, but due to my narrow feet, the edging was definitely better in the 10.5 size and still relatively comfortable, so I downsized. If you wear a size 13 street (athletic) shoe, my guess is that the 11.5's will probably work well for you as a first performance shoe. But if the 11's aren't overly painful when you try them, you do gain a slight edging advantage with the smaller shoe. I do think Tenaya's break-in real fast, so if the shoe is really painful when you try it, go up a size. Minor discomfort will likely stretch to the perfect size.
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Post by MarkAnderson on Oct 19, 2016 19:12:53 GMT -7
As far as down-sizing, it's really imnportant for thin edging shoes. You want your forefoot bound up in a pseudo-foot-fist. But that's not what you're after. For a soft gym-style shoe, you want to be able to articulate your toes for hooking and toeing in on larger/incut features. For what you have in mind I would recommend a less aggressive fit, as Otis suggests.
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Post by climber511 on Oct 20, 2016 6:18:00 GMT -7
I typed up a nice big post and my computer ate it . I'll try again after i quit kicking this thing around the room .
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