Use of momentum/swinging in campusing

[tahmad]

Hi All,

First time poster, so hello everyone!

I had a quick question about campusing using a swing to get extra momentum that I wonder if anyone could comment on.

Currently I'm on a board that is slightly larger than moon standard spacing (~23 cm between rungs instead of 22).  Maybe 15ish degrees overhung, probably a little bit less.  The rungs are the new tension rungs, which are the same size as the metolius rungs but have less of a lip.  So those are the general parameters.
 
I'm a big fan of max first move as a campus workout and can consistently latch 1-5 on the small rungs (specs as given above) with either arm.  To prep for 1-5.5 on the smalls I began to attempt 1-5.5 on the mediums.  From a deadhang start I could touch the lip of the 5.5 rung reliably, but not quite get my fingers into it.  To give myself that little bit of extra oomph, I started experimenting with giving myself a small kick-off/swing when I left the ground.  Nothing huge, just a bit of extra momentum.  I was able to get the air I needed from that and stuck 1-5.5. on the medium rungs with both arms leading.

Now - I wonder, is this too cheaty?  In the famous Jan Hojer training video, where he sticks what is about equivalent to a 1-7, he is clearly swinging by pushing off the ground a bit to get the momentum to explode as high as he does - so he at least seems to think its OK.  I am more interested in developing contact strength or latching power than pulling power, but 1-5 is too easy for me to feel like I'm really utilizing all my contact strength to grab the hold.  Going the extra 0.5, even with momentum, is making me have to try hard to latch, which makes me think its OK.  That said, would love to hear everyone's thoughts - i.e. if by swinging I am missing a big/important part of the gains I should/could be making in a campus workout.

___

Different/unrelated question!

I saw some threads on this elsewhere but was hoping for some clarification.  On goes when I am "pushing the envelope" - i.e., I've done 1-4-7 on the medium rungs, and now I want to try go stick 1-4-7 on the smalls and/or 1-4-7.5 or whatever on the mediums - how do you count "attempts?"  Because typically I will fail.  What I've been doing right now is make my limit attempt - say, 1-4-7.5, hypothetically - and if (when) I miss, I rest, and then go back down to 1-4-7, stick it, rest, and then try 1-4-7.5 again.  In other words, first attempt of a given set is going for a new best, but the second is doing what I've already done to try to get the benefit of latching the hold (as I said before, more interested in developing contact strength/latching power than pure pulling power, so I do want to actually be latching the holds, not just pulling hard).  If I'm feeling good I might give two tries to the pushing the envelope go and not even repeat what I know I can do.  Once again, just curious to hear folks' thoughts on the efficacy of this/what you all do/how to get the most of your campusing even with failed attempts, which seem to be quite frequent when trying your absolute hardest!

Thanks!

Taimur

[Chris W]

Regarding kicking off, I would consider that cheating. I suppose there is nothing wrong with that per se, but I don't know if you could accurately track progress that way since the force of the kick could be varied each time.

Regarding Max Ladders, I think (though I have to check) that only 1/3 of my campus session is devoted to max ladders. The other sets are completed, some of them serving as a warm up to the max ladders and max efforts.

Having said all that, I campus us to get better at climbing. Actual campus performance is secondary to that. I'm still learning a lot about campusing (on the board).

[MarkAnderson]

On the first question, I would definitely consider that "cheating" in the sense that it's not strictly campusing. If you were spraying about your campus achievements, you would want to point out that you are jumping off the ground on the first move. That said, feel free to cheat if you think it will help provide more effective training. The campus board is just a tool, and you should generally use it to make yourself a better rock climber. Chances are good that absolutely nobody cares (but you) how well you campus or whether or not you dab on this or that move.

On the second question, I will typically try the "next hardest move" many times in succession (say, as much as 6 times, leading with each hand?). There is some disagreement on this. I know Dave McLeod has recommended that you should focus more on repeatedly sticking moves you can actually do, as opposed to repeatedly failing to stick moves that you can't. I think there can be value in the failed moves, especially if you can get your fingers on the rung and at least try to latch it. From a pure power/plyometric perspective, trying really hard but failing to latch a rung may be better than actually latching it (since it will likely create an intense negative contraction as you slip off the rung).

Anyway, I don't see how you progress on the campus board without repeatedly trying moves that you can't quite do. If there's a better way, please share

[tahmad]

Thanks all!

Yes, I thought it was a bit cheaty for sure, but it is awfully fun to get extra air too!  Ill try to stick it fairly next sesh.  Def. agree with the board being a tool, however, and not an end in itself - which is why I was experimenting with the swing in the first place.

As to the second point - do you mean that those hypothetical six attempts at the max move each constitute a set?  I.e., say you are doing 8 sets of max ladders (or 16 if you count both hands).  Set 1-2 is whatever ladder you do reliably, and then you count each failed attempt at a new high point as its own set?  Just trying to clarify.

Thanks again for these thoughtful and quick responses.

Taimur

[tahmad]

So, on consideration, a follow up.

When I'm campusing, I'm most interested in contact strength as I've stated before.  This is because when I'm bouldering outside, I find that I can pretty much always move between the holds (i.e. the distance is never the problem), but latching is often where I fall. 

The problem with working that specific strength on the board for me is this: I only feel limited on the board itself by pulling power.  In other words, on outdoor climbing I feel limited by contact/latching strength, whereas on the board I feel its more a matter of how hard I'm pulling on the rung.  Whatever rung I can reach I can usually stick without too much trouble, even on the smalls.  Its more a matter of reaching it in the first place. 

Now, this may be a matter of technique - I'm actually quite new to the board, relatively speaking, and have definitely NOT mastered the whole pushing with the lagging hand thing.  That might give me enough lift so that latching becomes the problem instead of distance.  But other than this - any specific recommendations for focusing on contact strength?  I was thinking maybe plyo doubles (i.e. drop down, explode back up) as those seem to be limited more by contact strength than pulling power when the rung gets small enough.  I was also thinking about experimenting with even smaller holds on the board, and concurrently smaller moves - but small enough holds that even doing something like 1-3-5 or whatever would really require a lot of contact strength (i.e the distance would not at all be the limiting factor). 

Thoughts? 

Thanks again,

Taimur

[MarkAnderson]

Aug 16, 2016 18:54:18 GMT -7 tahmad said:

do you mean that those hypothetical six attempts at the max move each constitute a set?  I.e., say you are doing 8 sets of max ladders (or 16 if you count both hands).  Set 1-2 is whatever ladder you do reliably, and then you count each failed attempt at a new high point as its own set?  Just trying to clarify.

Thanks again for these thoughtful and quick responses.

Taimur

Yes, each failed attempt is counted as a set.

For your other question, I think the best thing would probably be to use shallower rungs.  I have the same problem--I can pretty much latch anything I can reach (at least, after a little bit of practice).  Bigger moves will make it harder to latch because the larger the move, the less your low hand can contribute to supporting your body weight.  So one way to make latching more difficult is to do bigger moves.  But I think that pales compared to the depth of the rung.  Doubles and Up-down-ups are definitely harder to latch, and reach is never the limiting factor for me (maybe the limiting factor is how fast I can move my hands?).  Those exercise aren't very specific though. 

Perhaps the best way to go, without reducing rung depth, would be to figure out a way to get less support from the low hand (such as, using less than 4 fingers, or a shallower hold).  I'm reluctant to use shallower rungs (for myself) because I worry about wrecking my skin.  I should probably try it, but it's a big investment in time and money to reconfigure a campus board just to try something that you aren't sold on.

[tahmad]

Great ideas. Thanks! And just in time for this evenings board session (:

Taimur

[tahmad]

Managed to snag the 1-5.5 without cheating yesterday. Excited to try and implement all this advice!

Taimur