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Post by heelhook on Jul 28, 2015 8:12:34 GMT -7
Hi guys
Yesterday was my workout number one on the power phase. I did my warm up boulders and then started campusing, it's been a long while since my previous power phase, more than 6 months, so yesterday's was my 5th campus workout ever and the 1st workout in 2015.
I was able to complete matching ladders on the large and medium rungs and basic ladders on the large rungs only. Basic ladders on the medium rungs got me quite shutdown, slipping off at rung 3 or 4. I did a set of basic ladders on medium rungs using the kickplate under the campus at the gym and was able to complete that although it felt extremely easy.
I didn't realize there was a note at the bottom of the page that says not to do max ladders on the beginners program if basic ladders can't be completed, so I did max ladders on the medium rungs anyway.
Interestingly, the max ladders on the medium rungs went much much better than the basic ladders, I was able to complete B1-R3-L5-B5 (although my right hand slipped when matching the rung).
Should I stick with doing max ladders for the next campus workout since I can almost complete it? Any thoughts on why I'd have a harder time with the basic ladders than the max ladders?
Thanks for the help!
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Post by jessebruni on Jul 28, 2015 8:36:19 GMT -7
This might sound overly critical but I wouldn't call that a good 1-3-5. It looks like you jumped into the first movement, and while the second movement was good you came off as soon as you matched #5. I would do it again, hang off #1 for a second slowing any momentum, then go. Use your upper body to generate momentum, there shouldn't be any leftover from the jump. Campus up to 5 as you did, but on the match hold it and control it for a second before coming off.
Anyway, if you can do it more in control I don't see any reason not to continue max ladders though from what you're describing it sounds like you'd get plenty of benefit out of doing your work on the large rungs.
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Post by heelhook on Jul 28, 2015 9:39:19 GMT -7
Thanks jessebruni! Appreciate the feedback a whole lot! I was actually starting on the second rung instead of the first one on the board to avoid using any momentum unknowingly generated with the legs, but you are probably right that I had some momentum going to #3. I didn't do max ladders on the large rungs since the workout on the book says to use medium rungs, I also read in the forum that using large rungs doesn't do much for the fingers but solely benefits large muscle groups. I'll follow your suggestion on the next workout: hang from the first rung first and continue on from there. Thanks again!
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Post by rob on Jul 28, 2015 10:14:15 GMT -7
I didn't do max ladders on the large rungs since the workout on the book says to use medium rungs, I also read in the forum that using large rungs doesn't do much for the fingers but solely benefits large muscle groups Agree with Jesse's comments. The only thing I would add, which mark may disagree with, is that given how new you are to campusing, it may be worth sticking mostly with the large rungs for a while whilst you get the right form (for max ladders). Given the risk of injury, I think its really important to have good form (shoulders engaged, arms bent etc. Etc.). So on the medium rungs, mastering basic ladders before moving on to more intense exercises like max ladders is really important to reduce the risk of injury. And in response to why max ladders may have felt easier, basic and matching ladders can feel a little awkward at first as you're making small movements, but they're important in teaching you how to move well using momentum.
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Post by joshvillen on Jul 28, 2015 11:08:26 GMT -7
I would give it 1-2 more sessions to see if you improve and gain more control. I also agree that you "jumped" into the first move. What spacing is that?
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Post by heelhook on Jul 28, 2015 11:41:40 GMT -7
joshvillen I *believe* it's moon half spacing. I measured it with an iPhone 4s and it was about its height. It's the climbing gym closest to my home in Margalef (closest, yet still about an hour's drive)
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Post by MarkAnderson on Jul 28, 2015 19:48:51 GMT -7
The only thing I have to add, is that perhaps you weren't warmed up enough when trying the Basic Ladder. Regardless of whether or not the first move was assisted, the 2nd and 3rd moves were surely harder than doing a basic ladder. I would recommend trying the basic ladder a few more times, or perhaps with a progressive power spot. Based on what you did in the video it seems you are certainly capable of doing the basic ladder.
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Post by Chris W on Jul 28, 2015 20:49:24 GMT -7
I seem to have an odd and similar issue. I seem to do a bit better with max ladders than I do with basic ladders than I do with matching ladders. The medium rungs are still pretty hard for me, and my campusing totally stinks. I've only been campusing since last summer. I thought that it could be an issue of being warmed up, but that doesn't seem to play out in practice. It's so noticeable for me that, when doing basic ladders and matching ladders, I use only whole numbers on my board (moon spacing), not half numbers.
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Post by jessebruni on Jul 29, 2015 8:46:27 GMT -7
Chris, how long can you hang from the medium rungs? If it's for a short amount of time, like less than 5 seconds, I could see not being able to do basic or matching ladders as easily as max ladders.
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Post by slimshaky on Jul 29, 2015 9:04:29 GMT -7
i am in the same boat (i generally find max ladders easier than basic ladders). i think a lot of it for me is coordination/concentration, it takes me a ton of concentration to hit the rungs correctly. it's like each throw uses some of my coordination, and pretty soon i am off by a fair amount. i think it will just take practice.
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Post by MarkAnderson on Jul 29, 2015 18:39:38 GMT -7
...interesting. Sometimes I wonder if I'm too far removed from my early climbing career to remember all the little details about those times. It really helps interacting with all of you for that, among other reasons.
Clearly the Basic and Matching ladders are more of an endurance exercise (relative to Max Ladders). Normally we do enduro work on larger/easier holds and vice versa. Do you think it would make more sense to advise beginners to do Matching and Basic Ladders on only the Large Rungs, and then Max Ladders on the Large and Medium? And then, once you've mastered the movements on the Large rungs, step down on each exercise (so Matching and Basic on Medium and Max on Small Rungs)?
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Post by tedwelser on Jul 29, 2015 18:57:02 GMT -7
I think that big muscle group fitness should be described as a key pre-req for max ladder campusing. If you think about the origination of the campus board, Gullich had no shortage of overall fitness. The only thing he needed to really increase was contact strength and explosive strength while using a powerful hold.
But for people climbing at a sub 5.13 level big muscle group fitness is what needs to be cultivated before max ladders can really be pursued. I for instance injured my elbows 2 years ago and could not train pull ups. So I worked around it, and ramped up my finger strength but I could only do a few pull ups. At one point I could do standard ladders on smalls but could not come anywhere close to 1 3 5 on medium. I even added some large rungs and could not do 1 3 5 on them. The reason is that my large muscle strength and power was lacking.
I am refocusing on inverted rows and training lockoffs and it is helping. But really, I think really focusing on training the big muscle group is key for max ladders. I will say that standard ladders of smalls where I try to maintain momentum are really helpful in terms of contact strength and coordination, so for people like me that were weak on big muscle groups there is still a lot of benefit from campus training.
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Post by Chris W on Jul 29, 2015 19:11:58 GMT -7
Jesse, I'll have to check, but I'm pretty sure I can hang (with two hands) for a lot longer than 5 seconds from my medium rungs. I could probably do several sets of 7 sec on 3 off on those rungs. I've wondered if it has more to do with large pulling muscle coordination, but having the exercises easier on the large rungs seems to throw that out.
Mark, I'd have to use some brain power to think about your question for a while. I can tell you that the medium rungs feel WAY harder to me than the large rungs. I can also tell you that, except when trying max ladders, I just use whole numbers since laddering with half numbers seems much harder as well. When I started campusing (one year ago) I basically did everything on the large rungs. Once I could successfully complete a goal with the large rungs (for example basic ladders up to 5) about half to 3/4 of the time, I would split my sets in half, with one half on the large rungs (first) followed by one half on the medium rungs. Once I can consistently perform the beginners campus workout, including max ladders of 1,3,5 I'll move on to the intermediate routine.
I've thought about working more campusing into my training, but I have to keep reminding myself that I'm training for climbing, not training for campusing. Still...
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Post by MarkAnderson on Jul 29, 2015 21:07:22 GMT -7
I have to keep reminding myself that I'm training for climbing, not training for campusing. Haha, I have the same problem every time the Power Phase rolls around.
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Post by rob on Jul 30, 2015 8:09:06 GMT -7
Do you think it would make more sense to advise beginners to do Matching and Basic Ladders on only the Large Rungs, and then Max Ladders on the Large and Medium? And then, once you've mastered the movements on the Large rungs, step down on each exercise (so Matching and Basic on Medium and Max on Small Rungs)? I think that's a difficult question to answer, especially to provide a "one fits all" answer, but IMO a person should be doing each exercise very well with perfect form before moving down rungs with that exercise... just because max ladders may feel easier than basic ladders on smaller rungs, doesn't mean they're being completed with proper form. From experience and observation, max ladders can feel easier as people often lock out fully on rungs, letting their shoulders and arms go lose and flail around dangling on one arm to match, particularly the last rep (which we know is bad form). whereas basic ladders require the use of continuous momentum and coordination without locking out the arms. Learning this on basic ladders is the key to being able to perform max ladders well with good form, IMO.
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