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Post by Lundy on Sept 8, 2015 20:44:43 GMT -7
Hi Ted - I'm glad you shared this, as I was wondering if that's what people were calling a "half-crimp". So my question is do people actually use that grip outside? I don't think I ever use that unless the hold I'm on is deep enough to go to the PIP joint, in which case this is the natural grip. I don't really understand, though, why folks would use that grip otherwise? I think I just use full-crimp or basically open (bend at DIP for index and pinkie, bend at PIP for middle and ring).
There has been a lot of talk on multiple different threads about what this grip looks like for folks, and I just don't understand why someone would intentionally pull up into the half crimp as shown, rather than just hang open or close the crimp if you need more.
Anyway, just my ramblings...
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Post by Chris W on Sept 8, 2015 20:57:51 GMT -7
That's interesting. My HB warmup is literally 12 minutes of ARCing followed by two easy sets on the HB (1 set of 7 reps and 1 set of 5 reps on a 1.5-pad open hand edge(on the large VDER)). From there I go straight into hard sets on Middle-Ring. I wonder if I would do better with more warm up. I feel like I would run out of steam if I warmed up more For what it's worth, I think I warm up WAY less than you guys. My HB warm up is simply 2 sets on the HB of jugs/LVDER at body weight. My bouldering warm up is 10 min ARC, then no more than 20-25 min WBL. That's assuming I have the time; if it's an early AM workout, I may have to keep the total warm up, including ARC and WBL, to 25 min.
I will run out of steam if my warm up is too long. Having little kids and a [sometimes cranky] wife can really light a fire under my a$$ to get the session started. My barn is my happy place.
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Post by rob on Sept 9, 2015 0:38:12 GMT -7
Hi Ted - I'm glad you shared this, as I was wondering if that's what people were calling a "half-crimp". So my question is do people actually use that grip outside? I don't think I ever use that unless the hold I'm on is deep enough to go to the PIP joint, in which case this is the natural grip. I don't really understand, though, why folks would use that grip otherwise? I think I just use full-crimp or basically open (bend at DIP for index and pinkie, bend at PIP for middle and ring). There has been a lot of talk on multiple different threads about what this grip looks like for folks, and I just don't understand why someone would intentionally pull up into the half crimp as shown, rather than just hang open or close the crimp if you need more. Anyway, just my ramblings... This is what I would call a half crimp too. I've also thought about its applicability when climbing recently as I include this grip in HB workouts, so I started to pay extra attention to what grips I used when climbing outside this summer. I found that I did use the half crimp, usually in 3 situations: 1) just latching a hold high above that you cant quite manage to full crimp but not so low that you have to open hand it. 2)holding shallow pocket style holds where you can get 3-4 fingers in but cant full- crimp because of the roof in the pocket. 3) same as no. 2 but edges where there is a lip above preventing you from full crimping. Granted you are less likely to use this than full crimp, but it does come up. Also I would have thought this grip is safer to train than a full crimp (though maybe not with the Forge) and will help strengthen your full-crimp?
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Post by rob on Sept 9, 2015 0:42:37 GMT -7
Having little kids and a [sometimes cranky] wife can really light a fire under my a$$ to get the session started. My barn is my happy place. [/p][/quote] I know the feeling! My warm-up is typically 5-10 minutes of HB ARC and a set of BW hangs on jugs. This usually feels sufficient, but maybe ill experiment with more and see how it goes. Though as Chris mentioned, its often difficult to find the time for a long warm-up given how long HB sessions are.
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Post by slimshaky on Sept 9, 2015 9:58:52 GMT -7
So my question is do people actually use that grip outside? i actually use it quite a bit. in particular when i am throwing hard to an edge of some sort i use this grip to latch the hold. you can't really latch a hold very well with the full crimp, and sometimes the edge of the hold may be sharp and would shred your fingers if you caught it open handed.
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Post by jonfrisby on Sept 23, 2015 6:55:39 GMT -7
Hey Yogi, I read Jon's comment differently. That during HB phase, he's doing a complete warm-up, up to a grade or two below his V max, then jumping on the HB, which is what I also do. I feel that it reduces the risk of injury on the HB and makes the transition to the power phase smoother. Not that he's jumping off the couch cold and trying to boulder within two grades of his max. Would be good to hear Jon clarify. Either way, though, I also support the idea, if you have the time, of doing a good bit of warming up/bouldering before HB (I usually do about 45 minutes) for the reasons mentioned above. sorry guys - didn't notice the notification till now. Yes, I start at V1 and go to V6 or 7. Sometimes I'll work an 8 for 15-20 minutes. I don't actually climb 4 hours - my point was merely that I don't need to cut out exercises for the sake of efficiency
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erk
Junior Member
Posts: 83
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Post by erk on Oct 1, 2015 12:24:28 GMT -7
Hey Yogi, I read Jon's comment differently. That during HB phase, he's doing a complete warm-up, up to a grade or two below his V max, then jumping on the HB, which is what I also do. I feel that it reduces the risk of injury on the HB and makes the transition to the power phase smoother. Not that he's jumping off the couch cold and trying to boulder within two grades of his max. Would be good to hear Jon clarify. Either way, though, I also support the idea, if you have the time, of doing a good bit of warming up/bouldering before HB (I usually do about 45 minutes) for the reasons mentioned above. +1 I do this this as well. I still feel like it takes of couple of workouts of actual limit bouldering before I start to feel strong, but the power usually comes flooding in.
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Post by tedwelser on Oct 1, 2015 12:55:34 GMT -7
Hi Ted - I'm glad you shared this, as I was wondering if that's what people were calling a "half-crimp". So my question is do people actually use that grip outside? I don't think I ever use that unless the hold I'm on is deep enough to go to the PIP joint, in which case this is the natural grip. I don't really understand, though, why folks would use that grip otherwise? I think I just use full-crimp or basically open (bend at DIP for index and pinkie, bend at PIP for middle and ring). There has been a lot of talk on multiple different threads about what this grip looks like for folks, and I just don't understand why someone would intentionally pull up into the half crimp as shown, rather than just hang open or close the crimp if you need more. Anyway, just my ramblings... Hey Lundy- sorry that I missed your message before. The reason I use the half crimp is that I have not trained the full crimp in my HB workouts at all. In previous seasons all my grips were either open hand or semi crimp. So, I suppose half crimp is my way of getting my joint angles closer to a full crimp while avoiding some of the stress of a closed crimp. Perhaps I am mistaken in my avoidance of the full crimp-- but I can say that my capacity to apply a crimp grip while bouldering has increased nicely this season. So, the questions that I don't really know the answer to are: In what ways would a half crimp differ from full crimp in terms of wear and tear and in terms of risk of injury? To what extent does the higher specificity of training a full crimp offer greater strength increase for unit of training effort? Does training a half crimp rather than full crimp on a HB raise any problems in application, for instance, does the reduced specificity increase risk of injuries in limit bouldering or in performance stages?
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Post by Lundy on Oct 3, 2015 19:00:14 GMT -7
Hi Ted, This reply is super interesting. I had never thought of using a half-crimp as a way to progress into a full-crimp while minimizing injury risk. I'm probably in over my head in answering, but the research I've done is consistent with what Mark and Mike note in the book -- that strength gains only apply within 15 degrees of the joint angle during isometric training. I have been climbing for 20 years and had always heard to stay away from crimping while training, but I was convinced by the argument in the book, so have been crimping during HB for the last year and found pretty impressive gains. I'm psyched to hear that you're making good gains, too, without having to use the full crimp in training. It would be interesting to hear what happens if you try for a cycle.
That's about the best I can offer to your questions. Curious to hear what others who know a lot more about functional anatomy and training have to say, though. I will admit that I still get a bit nervous really hammering the crimp grip during a HB workout. I sometimes feel like I'm just tempting an injury...
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Post by tedwelser on Oct 3, 2015 19:27:34 GMT -7
just curious-- which argument do you point to about crimping? I basically concluded that I should be semi-crimping, but I think I must have missed something, as I find a half crimp very helpful to train.
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Post by cirquebound on Jun 1, 2016 8:32:35 GMT -7
just curious-- which argument do you point to about crimping? I basically concluded that I should be semi-crimping, but I think I must have missed something, as I find a half crimp very helpful to train. Now I am confused. What is the difference between semi-crimping and half-crimping?
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Post by tedwelser on Jun 1, 2016 22:16:44 GMT -7
just curious-- which argument do you point to about crimping? I basically concluded that I should be semi-crimping, but I think I must have missed something, as I find a half crimp very helpful to train. Now I am confused. What is the difference between semi-crimping and half-crimping? Here is what I would say: Semi crimp is described by the Anderson brothers and involves index and pinky being open and middle and ring being slightly bent at the second joint and straight at the first. The full crimp is pretty explanatory from photos etc. The half crimp is (as far as I can tell) a training specific grip that you use on a 1.5 pad edge and maintain a 90 degree angle at the second joint but flat at the first joint. The virtue is that you have to use muscular effort to maintain form and that when you tire it will sink down to open but it does not rely on the tendon friction of the more severe angle of the full crimp. So basically you can build more strength with lowere training Wright since it lacks the mechanical advantage of the full crimp.
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Post by cirquebound on Jun 2, 2016 5:17:01 GMT -7
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mclay
Junior Member
Posts: 96
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Post by mclay on Aug 6, 2016 4:06:51 GMT -7
Link doesn't seem to be working. Can some re-post with clarifying photos of the relevant types of crimps as discussed above?
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Post by joecoov on Aug 6, 2016 10:30:51 GMT -7
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