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Post by rob on Jun 6, 2015 1:30:31 GMT -7
The worst is failing with a legit 1 second left on that last set. If the timer if ticking over to 7, I might call it a completion, but there are clear times when there is still 1 second left on that damn timer... Agreed! Its not like anyone would know if you just said you did it, but your conscious just won't let you... |
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Post by jonfrisby on Jun 6, 2015 6:02:59 GMT -7
Slim I never thought about that "holding it wrong" thing but I think you're absolutely right in retrospect.
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Post by Chris W on Aug 22, 2015 3:26:52 GMT -7
My half crimp seems to devolve into an open hand grip towards the last reps of my sets as I get towards the end of my strength phase. Anyone else have this problem? What do you do about it? It seems like some of you drop your resistance to keep the half crimp position. I've been questioning the utility of the grip all together (as opposed to simply going full crimp), questioning the utility of the "uncurling of the fingers", essentially creating an eccentric load as opposed to an isometric load, dropping weight, etc.
I've basically been soldiering on through the sets, but yesterday I "unraveled" on reps 4-6 on my last set (intermediate protocol). Any thoughts? Advance the weight or simply hold?
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Post by MarkAnderson on Aug 22, 2015 7:56:58 GMT -7
My half crimp seems to devolve into an open hand grip towards the last reps of my sets as I get towards the end of my strength phase. Anyone else have this problem? What do you do about it? It seems like some of you drop your resistance to keep the half crimp position. I've been questioning the utility of the grip all together (as opposed to simply going full crimp), questioning the utility of the "uncurling of the fingers", essentially creating an eccentric load as opposed to an isometric load, dropping weight, etc. I've basically been soldiering on through the sets, but yesterday I "unraveled" on reps 4-6 on my last set (intermediate protocol). Any thoughts? Advance the weight or simply hold? I used to have a big problem with this on my closed crimp. A few times I've "suddenly" noticed late in the phase that my grip position was way too open, and then I'd force myself back into the original position, and get totally spanked (since I hadn't trained the proper position in several workouts). Anyway, this is probably going to devolve into a discussion over the definition of "half crimp", but, I'm guessing I don't train that grip. I train a closed crimp (which can suffer from this problem), and what I call a "Semi-Closed Crimp". SCC probably isn't a great term either. Really, it's a thin, sloping edge (Small VDER,with my pinkies about one finger width from the shallowest/outer-most position). The point of that exercise is to maximize the load I can handle on an edge without fully crimping. As such, it doesn't matter which grip postion I use (essentially my I and P are totally open, flexed at the DIP, and MR are flexed at the PIP about 100-110 degrees). On the other hand, there are good reasons to force training a full crimp even if you could hold more weight in another position (because you know you will be using that grip outside where the holds are much nastier). The way I solved this with my closed crimp was to wrap my thumb over the inside of the edge (it helps if the edge protrudes from the board, is not continuous, and ends adjacent to your Index fingers). This will significantly inhibit your hand from opening, and if it does, your thumb will pop off with your fingers quickly following. The thin crimp on the Forge is designed specifically to accommodate this approach. |
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Post by yogicleo1 on Aug 22, 2015 14:47:55 GMT -7
Yeah, I do Jug (warmup), Lg open hand, Sm semi-closed, MR Pocket, IM pocket, Sloping 1-pad edge, Narrow Pinch. And yes, I'm failing at bodyweight on the last rep or two of the second set but just barely. I was curious about this particular part of the training: "GRIP ORDER" I do them as follows: JUG, LG OH EDGE, MR 2F PKT, WIDE PINCH, IMR 3F PKT, SLOPERS, IM 2F PKT, and then end on SM SC EDGE. Aside from the grip 2 &3 being both open handed, I am switching up the sensations of stress, starting out from hands, to fingers, to hand, to fingers, to forearms, to fingers, to hands. It usually feels better (for me) than doing every edge, then pocket, etc... As though I have more time to recover from that particular grip position...? I've been able to progress through each hold this far, however, my data is limited since this is my first time training HB. I still have about 2 or 3 more WO's to go. Any thoughts to the matter? Science? And does this seem like the correct approach? |
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Post by MarkAnderson on Aug 22, 2015 15:44:46 GMT -7
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Post by Chris W on Aug 22, 2015 20:29:36 GMT -7
Mark, I think we're talking about the same basic grip. For my half crimp, I'm basically setting my fingers slightly more open than the regular crimp position but specifically avoiding wrapping my thumb around the index finger. My goal is to train the basic finger position while hopefully avoiding undue stress on the joints from wrapping the thumb. Not sure if that plays out in real life, but it at least sounds good in my mind. I've been resting my thumb against the side of my index finger.
1) do you think it's better to count any finger "unraveling" as an incomplete rep and reason to keep resistance the same?
2) Do you think it would be beneficial to back the weight off in this case or just keep going with my current weight and try to behave myself? HB 6 (of 8) is coming on Monday...
I think the reason I'm struggling with this issue is that I can still stay on the board even with the finger position change. All the other grips I use cause me to come off the board with an incomplete set. Ego......
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Post by MarkAnderson on Aug 23, 2015 6:28:00 GMT -7
Ya, I totally get what you're dealing with. You should really consider it a failed rep if your hand opens up. I realize that's hard to do. Some minor amount of opening is ok, but you should try really hard to maintain your starting grip position. Even if you can't use a thumb wrap*, consider figuring out some way to use your thumb position as a benchmark for the proper position (since your thumb will sag as your hand opens). *note: I'm not wrapping my thumb over my I, since I think that puts way too much stress on the DIP joint for training. Instead I simulate an I thumb wrap by wrapping it over the edge itself, adjacent to the I finger pad. If you look at the Forge crimp, it might help illustrate what I'm talking about: www.trango.com/popup.aspx?title=Rock%20Prodigy%20Forge&src=/images/Product/large/22820.jpg |
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Post by Chris W on Aug 23, 2015 17:56:05 GMT -7
That was the answer I was leaning towards anyhow. Just means I'm not as cool as I think I am.
Dang! I guess I have to go buy the Forge now. I thought I was set for life once I got the RPTC in every color. Red for MR pocket, blue for crimp, black for sloper....
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Post by david on Sept 8, 2015 14:38:17 GMT -7
I actually add a short warmup set to all my grips now. I have found I get "flash pumped" if I go straight into the first set. The warmup set is very low weight (about 15-20lbs less than my first set weight) and about 5 reps of 5-7 seconds. It is not meant to be hard and I think it really helps. It especially helps me on my pocket grips and closed crimp.
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Sander
Junior Member
Posts: 61 
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Post by Sander on Sept 9, 2015 3:59:49 GMT -7
Hi David! Interesting! How do you squeeze in this warmup set logistically? Does it mean there's more resting time between 'real' sets or do you perform them in the 3 minute breaks?
I have a bit of a 'flash-pump' like problem with the half crimp as well: first 3 reps feel very easy and during the 4th or 5th it gets really tough very abruptly.... This is very different from for example IM: hard from the very start, but somehow much easier to endure.
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Post by tedwelser on Sept 9, 2015 7:03:37 GMT -7
Hi David! Interesting! How do you squeeze in this warmup set logistically? Does it mean there's more resting time between 'real' sets or do you perform them in the 3 minute breaks? I have a bit of a 'flash-pump' like problem with the half crimp as well: first 3 reps feel very easy and during the 4th or 5th it gets really tough very abruptly.... This is very different from for example IM: hard from the very start, but somehow much easier to endure. I have felt the same "flash-pump" like experience training on the half crimp in the past as well. I suspect it is partly because I generally underutilized crimps on ARC, general climbing, and power endurance. I try to more actively integrate all grip types into the more endurance climbing and lower intensity work. It seems to help. Also, I think it is generally helpful to find ways to integrate challenging types of grips in low intensity situations. (instead of only crimping in crux sections). I have a couple vert sections where I will match and rest and use only two fingers on some of the edges during my rest sequence, even though I could fit more fingers. |
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Post by slimshaky on Sept 9, 2015 11:33:37 GMT -7
one thing that always amazes me when it happens during HB workouts - the first 1 or 2 reps will feel so easy that i think i screwed up (and should have made it harder), but by the last 2 reps it feels really hard. after quite a few years of this i would think that i wouldn't be so shocked by it, but it totally shocks me every time.
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Post by rob on Sept 9, 2015 12:16:15 GMT -7
I also experience the weird sudden onset pump experienced with the semi -crimp position... Like Slim I think "yes, this set is going to be easy" only to struggle hugely on the last few reps, and I have the same thought process on it every single time.
I always feel that the grip requires more actual muscle contraction than pockets and other open hand grips, maybe that has something to do with it? A lack of ability to recover in such small muscles after such a high load and thus a sudden increased fatigue as waste products are unable to clear.... But I guess this happens with all grips.
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Post by cirquebound on Sept 10, 2015 12:12:12 GMT -7
I'm tall, at 6'5" and I tend to hangboard at 170lbs and send at around 155. Being that I'm a pretty big dude, small holds tend to be a weakness for me so I consider my semi-closed edge to be the most important grip for me to train. Any thoughts on why I am having trouble progressing on this grip in particular? Yahoo! Its always good to hear of other "larger" climbers getting after it! I am also 6'5" but a lot heavier than you at 200 and 190 for my fighting weight --> just under 6% body fat. I am also stubborn in noticing that tiny crimpers are my nemesis, and I have resided to HB to get over this "problem" rather than keep to compression  . With that being said, I have been training the half pad crimp and am in the throws of my second cycle and already have completed a new PR each session. First cycle PR was +15 and I just completed my fifth session at +40 (Failing on my third set - SO HUMID  ). It could be that my intensity was too low the first time or that I was still getting used to the whole HB'ing thing. I think it could be the intensity or fatigue. Interested to hear how it goes and learn more! |
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). It could be that my intensity was too low the first time or that I was still getting used to the whole HB'ing thing. I think it could be the intensity or fatigue.