Is red-pointing essential for improvement?

[Jack Ziegler]

I've noticed that most climbers that climb hard are more psyched about red pointing climbs than others. Do you think there is a correlation with improving as a climber and engaging in the redpoint process? Is having redpoint goals necessary for improvement? For beginners I would say no, but what about someone who has been stuck at 12a sport redpointing and 11b/c sport on sighting for a while?

How should one engage in goal setting and motivation if their goals are for onsight climbing or as I like to call it, amnesia onsight climbing. I personally find it hard to get motivated to do multiple burns on one goal climb on a particular climbing day. I often return to previously attempted climbs (sport and trad) after the sequences have been forgotten and try again for an 'onsight'. This is generally a product of a lack of psych for the redpoint process and having climbing partners that are less motivated or weaker and would rather keep doing new climbs. It is also a by product of being more into multi-pitch climbing where onsight climbing with out preparation is the sought skill. Will this hold me back from improvement or will concentrating on training and just climbing hard during the performance peaks lead to improvement in the sought after unprepared onsight climbing and maximum hang dog ability?

Any tips on how to get psyched about red point climbing?

[Chris W]

I'm not sure how it would relate to the process of improvement, but looking at it from a different angle, if you don't like red-pointing, just don't worry about it! I climb for fun, not to feed my family or make a living. The training and improvement process, for me, is enjoyable, so I do it. Red pointing, for me, is a very rewarding process, so I do it.

If your goal is to raise your on-sight level, I don't see how that could be a problem and would assume that your training will directly benefit this. If I hated red-pointing, I wouldn't bother with it. Rock and Ice recently wrote a nice article about a high level climber who only likes to on-sight, and this preference doesn't seem to have held him back.

Again, from an improvement standpoint, I'm not sure how red-pointing will affect your overall goal of improvement, but from a psychological point of view, if you don't like it, just don't do it.

[Jack Ziegler]

Thanks, I agree that psych is important.

How about from a physical stand point? Could it matter in that case?

When one engages in on-sight climbing, they climb very slow and statically (generally), and the training stimulus is very different from what you get when you do multiple burns on a memorized project. I feel that I've already milked most of the benefits of trying to on-sight all the time to increase skill at seeing sequences and finding rest positions (at least on non-steep climbs where P.E. does not come much into play). I often try hard sport and trad climbs that I cannot on-sight, but this turns into roped bouldering (hang dogging). Ideally, the goal would be to get stronger so that one could on-sight harder grades while still climbing slowly. But as you said, if I structure my training properly, I should theoretically be able to just focus on my preferred performance activity.

[MarkAnderson]

Jack,

I don't see any reason that redpointing is a 'necessity' from a physical standpoint (unless you want to be good at redpointing). I think it would be wise to work routes (or even boulder problems) every now and then, just so you can review your onsight performance, figure out where you made mistakes and where you might have done better reading the route or planning your onsight strategy. Also, I would probably stick with a 10/5 hangboard protocol, if I were only interested in onsighting.

[Charlie S]

May 2, 2014 19:54:06 GMT -7 MarkAnderson said:

Also, I would probably stick with a 10/5 hangboard protocol, if I were only interested in onsighting.

This is a very interesting insight.  I have some lofty goals, but in the meanwhile I want to be onsighting trad routes.  Should I go back to the 10/5 schedule?  My redpoint attempts are usually several weeks apart, depending on schedule and weather.

[kerwinl]

May 2, 2014 19:54:06 GMT -7 MarkAnderson said:

Jack,

I don't see any reason that redpointing is a 'necessity' from a physical standpoint (unless you want to be good at redpointing). I think it would be wise to work routes (or even boulder problems) every now and then, just so you can review your onsight performance, figure out where you made mistakes and where you might have done better reading the route or planning your onsight strategy. Also, I would probably stick with a 10/5 hangboard protocol, if I were only interested in onsighting.

Is this because the 10/5 protocol simulates the duty cycle of onsight climbing more then the 7/3 protocol? Should their be an adjustment in rep range at all, or is it best to stick with the 6 rep suggestion. 

Very interesting idea.

[MarkAnderson]

Yes, the duty cycle during an on sight is much slower than during a red point. Also trad climbing in general tends to take place at a much slower pace as you scope for gear placements and wiggle in jams.

Stick with the same rep structure. If you want to do more than one set per grip, do 6 and 5 or 7, 6 and 5.