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Post by joev9 on Mar 11, 2015 9:59:37 GMT -7
This line, "My warmup felt klunky and strenuous—usually a good sign." from Mark's latest blog post, is one of the best things I have read on the internets in a long time. I honestly thought it was just me, but when I feel strong warming up,I usually suck at sending. When I feel crappy warming up, and, better yet, fall off something easy, I usually crush a project. It has gotten so that if I feel good warming up, I get kind of mad that I won't be sending that day. Is there any science behind this, or is it just bad mental thinking???
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Post by jessebruni on Mar 11, 2015 15:06:03 GMT -7
I thought that comment was supposed to be sarcastic. Come to think of it, some of my best climbing days I've had god-awful warm ups. Maybe there's something to it.
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Post by MarkAnderson on Mar 12, 2015 15:11:48 GMT -7
I meant it literally. I have tried hard to convince myself it does not correlate 100% of the time (because I want to believe there's hope if I have a good warmup), but I swear on average I perform better after a poor warmup. One incident that sticks in my mind is falling on Heinous Cling (at Smith), a pitch I had climbed easily 50 times, just before sending my first 5.14 (Scarface).
At first I thought that after a bad warmup, I pessimistically predict the climbing day will be no good, so it relieves pressure. That might have been true at first, but now I'm used to climbing well after a bad warmup, so it would seem that effect would have warn off. Still, I tend to be pretty pessimistic about my redpoint chances, so maybe I'm looking for an excuse to not over-think everything, and even now a bad warmup is a good enough excuse. Plus now there is an element of self-fulfilling prophesy, in that now if I have a bad warmup, I think, "this might be the day". But that would seem to work directly against the pressure-relief theory.
One theory I have is that the purpose of the warmup, both physically and technically, is to "calibrate" the machine. If everything goes well, then no real calibration occurs, no adjustments are made. If things go haywire, then lots of adjustments are made. Another way of thinkingg about it is, when you do an easy climb to warmup, and it goes well, you aren't challenged at all. You aren't forced to struggle, or overcome adversity. On your redpoint you will certainly be challenged and forced to overcome (assuming the route is hard for you). An effortless warmup doesn't provide any practice at that.
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Post by Chris W on Mar 13, 2015 5:24:38 GMT -7
I like the "calibrate" theory. Do you think it could have anything to do with the amount of physical effort involved? For example, lets say you normally warm up on a 10a. If if doesn't go well, you have to put in more physical effort. What if you warmed up on an 11a instead? Even if the warm up is flawless, you would still put in more effort, right? Hope that makes sense...
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Post by slimshaky on Mar 13, 2015 9:55:58 GMT -7
i climb with quite a few people who will have a rough warmup, and then say that "today isn't the day" to do their route. they literally won't even get on their goal route. i am always trying to convince them that this isn't necessarily the case. many of my all time best sends have occurred after eating a total shitburger in my warmup. one of the problems you run into with warmups, particularly if it is the same warmup repeatedly, is that you start to climb it without even remotely paying attention to what you are doing. then, when you muff it up a bit you feel like you have somehow regressed. on the other hand, sometimes you can focus too intensely on your warmup and it makes you feel sort of jittery. just shake it off and keep going.
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Post by MarkAnderson on Mar 13, 2015 18:02:56 GMT -7
I like the "calibrate" theory. Do you think it could have anything to do with the amount of physical effort involved? For example, lets say you normally warm up on a 10a. If if doesn't go well, you have to put in more physical effort. What if you warmed up on an 11a instead? Even if the warm up is flawless, you would still put in more effort, right? Hope that makes sense... I think it really depends on the route. It's certainly possible to have an 11a warmup wired to the point that it feels easier than a 10a you've never done. My preferred approach is to do onsights for all my warmups. Unfortunately, as I continue to punt, I almost always run out of routes to onsight, and eventually end up climbing the same stupid routes over and over again.  (one thing I love about Shelf is that there are unlimited onsight warmup options). To slim's point, if you're onsighting, you have to pay attention. I do think the important thing is the amount of effort, rather than the difficulty on paper. |
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Post by MarkAnderson on Mar 13, 2015 18:13:24 GMT -7
i climb with quite a few people who will have a rough warmup, and then say that "today isn't the day" to do their route. they literally won't even get on their goal route. I've seen this too. It seems to happen a lot with mega-projects. I think the rationale is that they are so at their limit that everything has to be absolutely perfect to even have a shot, so if it's not, why bother? I'm not a fan of mega-projects (although I seem to keep stumbling in bassackwards in that direction) for a few reasons. But, I think if you get to a point where you feel like it's no use even trying, it's probably more of a motivational problem, and it would be really healthy to move on to something else. Either try another route, or go back and train for a while and return when you're truly psyched. I think in some cases there can also be a fear of failure element to it. That said, in some ways I envy climbers who can be so flexible/open-minded/easy going, or whatever you want to call it. I would never EVER do that. I'm too OCD/Type A/high strung or whatever you want to call it. In fact I go to ridiculous extremes to ensure I don't miss a redpoint opportunity even if fate is clearly working against me. I could go on for days amazing the internet with the stupid things I've put Kate through in the name of sticking to my climbing schedule. |
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Post by joev9 on Mar 17, 2015 7:54:10 GMT -7
I am so glad to hear that this good/bad warmup thing isn't just me. I just need to figure out how to regularly have "bad" warmups so I can send everything, every day!
So this is kind of related... I have been climbing for over 20 years and my recent shift to really training for climbing has revealed something kind of interesting to me, the fact that although some things have changed, many are still the same. Mostly in that, although I feel much stronger and very well prepared to send, there are still good days and bad days, just like always. And, just like always, they really can't be predicted (either by warmups or otherwise). It may seem silly, but I kind of thought that feeling stronger would "smooth" over those ups and downs, but they are still there. It's not the end of the world or a negative against the training, it's just interesting to me that that aspect has not changed.
Another is that hard problems still feel hard, it's just now I'm sending them, rather than falling off. That slight difference (sending vs. falling) doesn't really negate the feeling of a problem being really hard. It certainly feels better in the end to be on top, but it's only a 1 or 2% difference between punting and sending...
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(one thing I love about Shelf is that there are unlimited onsight warmup options). To slim's point, if you're onsighting, you have to pay attention.