Advanced footwork practice

[Jon]

Hello Mike, Mark and fellow board readers, 

I'm looking for tips and tricks for improving footwork and core tension on really bad feet.  I'm a V8/5.13b climber who struggles with moving on mildly overhanging (10-30 degrees) problems that require moderate to long reaches between holds on bad feet.  I understand the concepts, but I feel like I fall out of balance on these types of moves and subsequently fall.  I think this is one of the primary limiting factors in my progression at the moment.  I just can't seem to keep tension on these harder moves when the feet are bad.    

I'm trying to figure out the best way to practice this movement to get better at it.  I have a home wall and have tried to set problems to work on.  However, if I make the feet slightly larger, then I feel "in balance" and can easily do the problems.  If I make the hand holds larger, I can just campus through it.

I'm trying to work on my technique, but there seems to be a fine edge between what feels fairly easily doable and what feels almost impossible.  Like I'm going from V7 to V11?

Any tips or suggestions are greatly appreciated. 

[MarkAnderson]

I think you're on the right track with creating bad-feet problems on your home wall. You're probably already doing these things, but 1), be sure to wear quality, well-fitting climbing shoes during your training sessions. And 2) get a good selection of non-positive footholds. Generally when you're struggling with tension, size doesn't matter, it's more a matter of how incut the footholds are. Texture can come into play as well (sometimes a gritty neutral hold feels better than an incut slick hold). If you need some recommendations, let us know.

As far as the non-linear jump in difficulty, I'm inclined to think that is a route-setting problem. Route-setting is not easy, but the good news is, if you do a lot of it you are likely to stumble upon some Goldi-locks problems eventually. I would keep experimenting with your setting, and don't be afraid to take a problem down if it's not useful. Sometimes it works better to start over than to try to tweak an existing problem into the proper difficulty.

Do you find your feet often pop off on these types of problems, or do you lack faith that your feet will stay on, and that doubt manifests itself in some other failure mode? Also, do you feel you have the physical core strength to keep your feet on? In other words, do you see this as a technique issue or a strength issue?

[Jon]

Hello Mark,

Thanks for the quick reply. I know you posted some foot chip recommendations on the Lazy H blog, but if you have anything else you would recommend, I am definitely open to suggestions. I agree that the angle and texture of the foothold seems to hold the key as to whether a move seems doable or difficult more so than size.

As for the reason for the foot pop, I believe it is probably a combination of strength and technique, but probably more on technique. I am pretty strong, can do heavy weighted pull-ups and rows, standing ab wheel roll outs, extended planks with a 40 lb weight vest, etc. However, I am not the most naturally coordinated when my balance is off center. As a result, I am not very good at onsight climbing and it's not uncommon for me to have to "learn" the movement of a problem before sending. The movement pattern of moderate to long reaches on non-positive footholds has been very difficult for me to learn. I can push off, reach the target hold, then my foot usually pops, usually resulting in a fall, or a crazy fight to reel in the hold and get my feet back on the wall.

Also, these moves are moves that others can keep their feet on. These aren't full-on dynos or anything of that nature.

[jessebruni]

You sound like a strong person who has little experience climbing on this type of terrain. Most bigger/stronger guys I know prefer cave climbing, roof climbing, and climbing on the 45. They tend to spend little time on vertical terrain and avoid slab like the plague. If this sounds like you it's possible that you just need more practice on this type of terrain that you're bad at. You say you can climb V8 but can you do it on less than vertical, vertical, steep, and roof? If not it's probably a matter of practice and you just need to put in the time.

My issue was the opposite. I learned to climb in a university, and as anyone who has ever been to a university rock wall can tell you, they tend to be pretty much vertical. As such I learned vertical technique pretty quickly and by the time I started climbing in a real gym I could do V6's on the vertical or slab terrain without too much trouble, sometimes even flashed, but most of the V4's in the cave or on the 45 shut me down. It's taken me two years of climbing regularly on steep terrain to be able to perform at the same level as I can on vertical terrain, and while lack of strength was part of the problem it was the technique that took so much time to build, I still have tons of trouble with toe-hooks and bicycle moves!
So while I hate to say "just keep climbing and you'll get better" I do think there is some truth to the 10,000 hour rule. And even if you can say you've reached 10,000 hours and achieved mastery in climbing movement be honest with yourself about whether your can say that about all types of terrain. Anyway, I'm sure you can improve your technique better through deliberate practice, and that's probably what you should be doing, but either way it's probably not going to become your forte overnight.

[Jon]

Hey Jesse,

I wish it were as simple as "just keep climbing". Unfortunately, I have been climbing for about 10 years and climb on all terrains (well at least vert to overhung), I do tend to avoid true slab climbing

I tend to do my best climbing between 15 and 30 degree overhangs, but I can boulder up to V7 in a cave or on a vertical problem. My biggest problem is holding the tension on bad feet when I am making a longer reach. As soon as I get past a certain point, my feet just won't stick, so I really want to improve this particular aspect of my climbing.

I have tried a couple of different forms of deliberate practice with some success shortening the reach and slowly reaching further and further, but can't seem to get past the sticking point of what I would consider a V6 crux move in this style.

[climber511]

Try "rooting" - a martial arts term. The general concept is to "settle" into your feet. Feet only stick when weighted - if you pull a little too hard on overhanging terrain, the weight will come off your feet and you will pop off and the body will go to vertical. If sounds as if you are "lifting yourself" off the footholds.

[Jon]

climber511, I think your description is probably pretty accurate on what I do, but how would one practice "rooting" in the climbing sense?

[slimshaky]

good question, i have similar problems on steeper terrain. if the holds are small, but positive, i am ok. however, trying to figure out how to use smears on substantially overhanging terrain gives me a lot of problems. if this is combined with non-positive handholds i am in big trouble.

when i look at the non-positive feet, i can't really come up with an idea on how to engage them without applying a force that is going to result in 'unloading' other points of contact. some folks seem to have some sort of implicit understanding or instinct in how to do this. i think core tension does have a lot to do with it - but it is hard to figure out how to apply core tension without being able to 'grab' the holds with your feet.

[Chris W]

Jon, for foot chips try e-grips sandstone chips and sandstone rails (screw on holds). You can set them in different ways to make them more or less positive. I spent several years looking for tiny low profile footholds for my wall until I found these. I now own several sets of these and have peppered my walls with them, especially my vertical wall.

I don't have the same problem you do. I think it's likely because I'm weak (but getting stronger thanks to the RPTM). Because of starting out with weak finger strength, I have had to keep my feet on anything and everything to stay on any route or problem I got on. I'm especially good at keeping feet on with long reaches, but I also have a +6 ape index (my only genetic climbing gift).

[climber511]

Mar 3, 2015 13:42:53 GMT -7 Jon said:

climber511, I think your description is probably pretty accurate on what I do, but how would one practice "rooting" in the climbing sense?

The way I teach it at the climbing wall is simply get on an appropriately steep wall with several decent handholds to hold and move to in different directions. Put your feet on holds like the ones you have trouble on - have several available in different places to move around on.  Then just play around with tension in the pull and the feel of weighting your feet - move around a lot until you get a feel for "settling" the weight to your feet.  When they pop you pulled too hard with your arms - and think about pushing with the foot (or feet) you are weighting.  Drop your butt and bring it back in - feel what is happening with all the movements.  You have to develop an awareness than you seem to be having problems with doing.  This is an exercise in awareness - deliberately over pull and feel what happens to your body positions and your foot placements.

[Carl0s]

Jon,
My recommendation would be to do some specific strength training, dead-lift and shoulder exercises like front levers.
I'm not a trainer, but I do read a ton and it sounds like it's your core and shoulders that could use some strengthening.
The dead-lift will strengthen your core, the lower back and the ability to keep pushing on small bad feet or smears.
The front levers will strengthen your shoulders and the ability to hinge your upper body and keep your hips closer to wall when climbing overhangs.
After I started doing the dead-lifts and front levers I had a much easier time keeping tension on super small holds or just wall smears when climbing roofs.
Good luck! I love this training for climbing stuff.