How and When to Address Phase Specific Weaknessess

[crossing]

With the 2014 route climbing season finished, I’ve had some time to reflect on my performance throughout this year. I’ve hit some of my goals which was awesome, but I have also not come anywhere near achieving others. Analyzing my performance on the various routes I’ve tried, one thing has become painfully clear… my power endurance is embarrassingly awful. To give a little background on where I am coming from, I’ve been trying a power endurance goal route for 2 seasons now (Fall ’13 and Fall’14) and my highpoint has not moved. I know the moves well and can do all of them from the hang, but there is one particular move that I cannot seem to get past on redpoint, and worst of all when I’m falling off… I’m not even that pumped! I’m starting to wonder if it is some neural fatigue that is contributing to me falling.

My 2015 goals all really revolve around PE type routes, so I am really looking to build my PE so that I can climb V5 for 5-7minutes after 40’ of 5.10 (this mimics the climbing on my goal route). I’ve been following the rockprodigy periodized method for a couple of years now, but I think I might have been really tailoring my training to suit my strengths (i.e. focusing on strength and power). I’ve been hangboarding using 5 grips and the advanced timings (7/3) for strength, limit bouldering for power, and doing rhythm intervals for 5 minutes to train PE. I have been considering shifting my hangboard timings to 10/5 to address my PE weakness. Mark mentioned in this thread: www.mountainproject.com/v/another-hyphangboard-question-/107446290__2#a_107450292 “RE: rep durations, FWIW, the Rockprodigy protocol originally called for 10 sec reps with 5 sec rest. Some time in the long long ago, in the beforetime, we came up with the 7sec on, 3 off. I think its "better" but it really depends on what you're training for. Shorter reps lean more towards MaxR, and longer more towards PE. The impetus for change at the time was that I found I was really good at PE and generally sucked at power, so I wanted to move my Hyp training more toward the direction of MaxR.” So because I suck at PE and am good at power my thought is I should switch things up. However, I’m not sure if I should just schedule shorter strength and power phases, and have a longer PE phase to really address my weakness.

What would you recommend?

[MarkAnderson]

It can be really tricky trying to figure what type of fitness you need for a given route and the best way to train for it.  Sometimes a route looks like one thing but climbs like something else. 

When you say "there is one particular move that I cannot seem to get past on redpoint, and worst of all when I’m falling off… I’m not even that pumped!", this sounds to me more like a High Intensity, Low Duration Power Endurance problem (like an 8 move boulder problem culminating in a tough dyno), as opposed to Low Intensity High Duration Power Endurance problem (like falling at the end of a route in the Pipe Dream at Maple, where every move is basically the same difficulty but you fall once the pump clock expires).  It may not feel like a stopper move off the dog, but if you're falling on literally the same move every time, that is a stopper move.

However you also mention doing V5 for 5-7 minutes. That sounds more like LIHD or Pipe Dream/Madness Cave. 5 minutes is a pretty long time to be climbing on something you know well (not resting/shaking, but climbing) especially after 40' of 5.10. How long is your project?

Anyway, if we could get a better handle on what the route is like, or rather, the type of PE fitness it requires, I think that will really dictate the type of training.  If you're falling on the same move over and over, it's probably a situation where you need to be at (let's say) 80% when you reach that move, but you're arriving at 70%.  That could mean you need to improve your endurance for the approach, so you can do it without depleting yourself, and thus improving the odds of arriving at the move at 80% or better.  Or, another option might be to raise your top end power so that 70% is enough to do the move.  I think you will want to work on both of those in the background, but you will get the best short term results from working an LBC that starts with X number of relatively easy problems, but ends with one relatively powerful problem.  Then the challenge is less about completing countless medium-intensity moves with a wicked pump, but rather learning to control a light pump and execute a difficult move when you aren't at 100%.

[crossing]

Thanks for your reply Mark, I appreciate your analysis. I agree this route is more high intensity low duration, and you are right about the 5-7 minutes - that included resting, I'd say the actual climbing duration is around 2 minutes and the total length is around 70 feet.

So the initial climbing starts off with 40' of 5.10 and after this section there is a good rest (still on your arms, but big holds). The next section is 10 hand moves over about 18' at V4 and ends at a bad rest (really stretched out and squeezing with one knee and heel hooking with the other on a big block. The next moves off this block is where I fall on Redpoint, a big move off a high left foot and sidepull to a pinch (V5) then 6 hand moves of V3 over 9' to another hard move (V5). A decent rest on a jug (still on your arms, but big holds) then one last hard move (V4) to the chains.

As far as the individual moves, they are within my ability, I'm currently bouldering V8, and currently in the middle of a bouldering specific training cycle. Again thank you for taking the time to share your training insight and experience.

[MarkAnderson]

Ok, so it sounds like a situation where you need the ability to do a hardish move when you're not 100%, as opposed to racing against a growing pump. There's probably an element of core fatigue in there as well, based on your description of the terrain and rest stances.

I think you should stick with the 7/3 hangboard protocol. Make sure you are doing some core-related Supplemental Exercises, and maybe increase the volume of those as you build toward your peak. Think about the core strength you need for the route and select exercises to build that strength.

When it gets time for PE training, I would build a circuit like I described, front-loaded with relatively easier problems, but ending with a low-percentage, core intensive crux. Ideally all the problems would contribute to fatiguing your core, so use poor footholds if possible. You could also build a bad rest in before the crux.

Curious, did you ever try skipping the bad rest and just springing through, or just doing a quick chalk up and continuing?

[jessebruni]

Personal edification question: What is the given grade on this route? What you describe sounds 13b-ish to me but I wonder how far off the target I am there?

[crossing]

I was initially trying to recover at the bad rest, but I just couldn't get anything back. This last season I was just chalking up quickly trying to execute the move. That is a great suggestion about performing some supplemental core strength exercises. I recently finished my home bouldering wall, and I will absolutely be setting a linked boulder problem circuit in the manner you described.

jesse - the route is 13a

[jessebruni]

Sounds like a nemesis project if you're falling off the same move and you don't even feel pumped. For me these things usually come down to my mental state. What has worked for me in the past to break past these barriers (short of just getting stronger) is to do a quick full body evaluation before I come across "the move". What I mean is that I'll take stock, in my head, of everything going on, make sure my set up is perfect, make sure I've got maximum tension in my hands, core, feet, try to feel it all at once and be aware of it. Then I do the move, focusing on putting in 100% effort to that move and focusing specifically on fixing the thing that causes me to come off (for instance if I come off because my feet blow once I hit the hold I'll focus intensely on the pressure I'm exerting on the footholds as well as the tension in my core).

I've found that once you get these routes wired you tend to not think so much about those little details, you just do the moves, which is fine until you get to a limiting move where you really need to dig deep. In this case I can go in the gym and train more, and usually should, but I can usually pull off the send if I refine my mental game a bit more as well. When it comes down to doing a single move this strategy has worked for me every time.

[sr]

Are you able to link trough the crux if you hang 1,2 bolts lower?  I have found it can be an effective strategy to work the low point not only the high point.  Plus if you have trouble with linking the crux from a lower hang then more power might be needed.  If you are linking easily then it might make sense to work more PE.  

[jessebruni]

Also, if I'm feeling physically exhausted it's much harder to summon the effort for one final hard move. I find that if I stop for a second before the move and do a quick two-breath inhale-exhale it gives me that little bit of extra "push" to do one more move.

[crossing]

Thanks for the replies, Jesse - that's a good tip about taking a quick body check before execution of the move, sounds kind of similar to the rock warriors way. Sr - that's great advice about working it from a low point, I put in a couple of attempts at going from the low point with some success. I agree I need more power in addition to PE to take this thing down.

[slimshaky]

Dec 22, 2014 9:55:17 GMT -7 MarkAnderson said:

Curious, did you ever try skipping the bad rest and just springing through, or just doing a quick chalk up and continuing?

This is a really, really good question and was the first thing i thought about when reading your question and description of the route.  For me, I usually fare better if I don't try to to snag a rest (unless it is a really good rest) on these types of routes.  It seems like i just kind of lose momentum, both physically and mentally.  It is almost like fatigue catches up with me while i am trying to rest.

Last October I was working on a route of this type.  I kept having the same problem - I could get through the first crux and into an awkward rest, but every time i came out of the rest into the second crux i would fall.  i really felt like i might not be able to do the route.  ultimately, the day i sent it was on my 2nd attempt.  my first attempt was the usual one hang.  second go i decided that i wasn't going to try to snag the rest, i was just going to stay in rythym and hope i could use momentum to get through it.  i really think that the mental momentum is what really mattered the most.