Continuous Closed Crimp Training?

[tsh]

The closed crimp is my biggest weakness in climbing.  10+ years ago I was strong in that grip but then I practically swore it off after a series of finger injuries.  In the last year or two I've been trying to safely get it back.  The hangboard repeaters have been good and my numbers are slowly improving in that grip, but it's still relatively very weak and I still have serious CCA (closed crimp anxiety when actually climbing to the extent that I simply never let myself try hard on closed crimps for fear of injury.

I think the repeater workouts have got me on the right track, but outside of those I don't really get much quality practice or training of that grip.  Considering that I typically only do repeaters 3-4 months in a year, I'd be interested in finding a safe way to more consistently train my closed crimp and perhaps accelerate my getting back to where I used to be, even if it is just building confidence.  I'm thinking of something along the lines of adding a quick repeater workout of just that one grip at the end of other workouts or days climbing outside, perhaps at a lower TUT or less resistance than I would typically do during the Strength Phase.  Has anybody experimented with something like that or have any suggestions to improve my crimping game? 

[daustin]

I like to incorporate some small edge crimp hangs into my "warm up" before trying really hard (e.g. limit bouldering or redpoint attempts on bouldery routes).

If I'm going to do a limit bouldering sesh at the gym, I'll warm up for 20-30 mins with some stretching and easy bouldering, then I'll hop over to the hangboard to do 3-5 hangs on 1-2 grips (usually half crimp on larger edge and half or full crimp on smaller edge), using a typical max hangs style protocol (hang for 10s at an intensity where you feel like you'd fall off after another 3s or so).

I tend to error on the side of lower intensity than pushing harder, since I follow up the hangs with hard climbing that usually involves pulling on small edges. The hangs really feel like they get my fingers ready to pull hard in a way that climbing as a warm just isn't able to.

Truth be told, I haven't actually done a warm-up like this for indoor or outdoor sport climbing yet, but that's more a matter of circumstance as I haven't really done much sport climbing in the past couple years. If/when I do get back into sport climbing, I'll definitely try to incorporate this into my warm-up routine and might even consider buying one of those fancy portable hangboards to bring to the crag.

[tetrault]

" I'd be interested in finding a safe way to more consistently train my closed crimp "

My useless comment is: what is safe for others may not be safe for you and vice versa.

I have read (maybe an Anderson post in hangboard grip discussions on here) that tweaky grips may be safer to train earlier in the session, but I don't recall the physiological reasons.

[tsh]

Very true about some being more vulnerable to injury than others. Part of me says I should just be patient and continue what I'm doing and eventually the strength and confidence will follow. The other part of me says that if it's my biggest weakness then it warrants more consistent attention. I do like the idea of doing a few (sub-)max hangs at the end of each warm up. Seems safer than waiting until after a full workout.

[daustin]

And I really can't stress enough that although I started doing the (sub)max hangs as a way to continue to work on strength and recruitment on crimps during a "power" phase, I think the real benefit has been in how it's warmed my fingers up for trying hard on fingery boulder problems.

In the gyms I climb in and at the grade I climb, I don't do a lot of crimping or pulling on small edges during a warm-up. Even with a thorough warm-up on the wall, if I then try to get on a fingery limit boulder, I would often feel like I was rolling the dice w/r/t finger injury. After adding the hangs into the warm-up, I felt like I could crimp harder but also safer during my limit boulder sessions.

[tsh]

Sounds like what you're doing could be perfect for my situation and help with my crimp anxiety. I'm stoked to try easing into it, so thanks for the idea. BTW, nice pic of Wills!

[jetjackson]

Perhaps you just need to risk the injury?

I see a lot of goals on reddit and here that are all about avoiding injury. I think the reality is that to train and climb at your genetic/physical limit, you need to flirt with injury. Essentially you're going to cross that line every now and again. Accept it as a possible outcome and then go out and push your limit.

[tsh]

Yeah I’d like to find a healthy middle ground of not backing down off of every cruxy closed crimp but not unnecessarily make a habit of the grip. I think that’s the conventional wisdom but I know there are exceptions such as Adam Ondra who said he likes to alternate between closed and open grips in order to more evenly fatigue his forearm muscles while on a route. I could be more injury prone than average because I manage to get a couple finger tweaks/soreness lasting a few weeks or months each year, even though I rarely closed crimp.

Speaking of injury being a reality of pushing your limits, I agree that’s true for most of us. I think finger injuries are also a little less scary than they used to be with the knowledge base that we have now. Last night I watched the US bouldering nationals and the commentators pointed out that almost every female competitor had something taped up for an injury. Alex Puccio was dealing with FOUR finger injuries and still took 1st place!

[jetjackson]

Feb 4, 2018 10:18:48 GMT -7 tsh said:

Yeah I’d like to find a healthy middle ground of not backing down off of every cruxy closed crimp but not unnecessarily make a habit of the grip. I think that’s the conventional wisdom but I know there are exceptions such as Adam Ondra who said he likes to alternate between closed and open grips in order to more evenly fatigue his forearm muscles while on a route. I could be more injury prone than average because I manage to get a couple finger tweaks/soreness lasting a few weeks or months each year, even though I rarely closed crimp.

Speaking of injury being a reality of pushing your limits, I agree that’s true for most of us. I think finger injuries are also a little less scary than they used to be with the knowledge base that we have now. Last night I watched the US bouldering nationals and the commentators pointed out that almost every female competitor had something taped up for an injury. Alex Puccio was dealing with FOUR finger injuries and still took 1st place!

Yeah, I like to say I always open crimp where possible, but I find that when I film myself climbing and then go back and watch, when I'm fatigued and not concentrating, a grip that could be open crimp, I'm pushing the half crimp on it. Also I find that some incut holds are very hard to open crimp - like patina style flakes that maybe you can get 2 or 3 fingers behind, and 1.5-2 pads, but the way you hold them, your fingers are still in that arc half or closed crimp position. 

I noticed that too. Having said that, from what I'm seeing, more and more of these comp style problems are relying on more gymnastic and awkward balance moves to increase difficulty, rather than just making holds smaller and smaller - as most of the good climbers now can crimp down on almost anything.