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Post by tetrault on Sept 26, 2017 8:36:49 GMT -7
Recently finished up my 22nd round of RPTM hangboarding! Time flies! As I started before the book came out, these were all essentially the "advanced" routine.
I often have shorter seasons, so this equates to roughly 5 years.
Though I am continuing to surpass my old climbing goals and even get on a couple "dream" routes, I have not had any measurable HB improvement since starting on the Forge just about 2 years ago.
I have only seen stagnation or regression, though I think/hope some of that must have to do with loss of friction through use of the board (especially the VDER!). There have been no significant changes in my training since then, other than a slow shift to less ARC, and more power focus starting late 2016.
Can't quite do a direct comparison as I have switched up the grips a little, but the numbers are still relatively clear. (Also of note may be how pitifully low some of my #s are...but I am much more concerned of the lack of improvement.)
Fall 2015 vs Fall 2017 #s by grip order:
1:VDER +25 vs 1:warmup grip
2:Crimp +5 (forge) vs 2:Crimp +15 (shimmed campus rung)
3:Slimp +0 vs 3:VDER -5
4:Small IM -5 vs 4:Small IM -5
5:Small Mono -30 vs 5:Slimp -5
6:Small MR -20 vs 6:Small MR -30
7:Wide pinch -30 vs 7:Wide pinch -35
I am contemplating doing a "retro" cycle on the original RPTC with my old grip order to see if I can at least match my 2015 PRs on that board.
For anyone else here that has been stricly adhering to RPTM hanboarding (and most of the other portions of the method) for around this long:
1. What type of improvement are you seeing on the hangboard at this point?
2. Ever deal with this type of stagnation throughout your HB training?
3. Does doing a direct comparison cycle sound like it would be of use?
4. Any ideas to break through and see some gains?
Edited to add:
4a: Is it time to break from the routine and move away from strict RPTM repeaters? (Assuming the additional or replacement workout still promotes hypertrophy)
4c. Has anyone tried using longer or shorter TUT repeater protocols to break through a 7/3 plateau?
Thanks!
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Post by jonfrisby on Sept 26, 2017 12:46:13 GMT -7
I can't say that I've ever done a 100% adherence RPTM hb protocol (never done more than 5 grips), but was fairly close last winter. Pinch doesn't follow, but every other grip I've put 10-12 RPTM sessions on has increased by at least 15 pounds, generally around 25. Usually I would regress to about 10-15 pounds above baseline between seasons and then make more improvements, so generally in the 20-25 pound per grip range in season and 10-15 pounds season over season.
I've moved away from RCTM to a block periodization model, which includes some extent of year-round hanging. I have been hangboarding in some form every week (two rest weeks) since January. This cycles between 1 and 3 sessions per week. Also, I rotate between three protocols (max hangs, 7/53, and 5/5*6 repeaters). I really think this prevents stagnation.
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Post by Chris W on Sept 26, 2017 18:50:40 GMT -7
I'd like to hear Mark's input on this topic.
12/17/2015 2/27/2016 8/25/2016 11/30/2016 2/22/2017 6/15/2017 8/23/2017
SVDER no bumps open hand 30 35 40 35 40 45 45
Forge 2 finger pocket deep MR -5 body -5 body
Forge Crimp -25 -15 -15 -15 -10 -15 -15
2 finger pocket deep IM -15 -10 body -10 body -5 -5
Wide Pinch -10 -10 -5 -10 -5 -10 -10
Sloper 25 20 30 15 30 35 35
2 finger pocket 1,2 MR 5 10 15
OK, well, just tried to post my numbers from excel, but didn't work too well. I think you get the idea though. I'm making very small gains, and am sticking very closely with the Rock Prodigy method. I'm anticipating a similar issue in the future. For now, since I am seeing very small gains on the hangboard, and my climbing is definitely improving, I'm not worrying about it too much. I'm planning on sticking with it. I've done a total of 15 hangboard seasons.
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Post by jetjackson on Sept 26, 2017 20:21:55 GMT -7
Wow 22 seasons! Wonder how many other people out there have that many seasons under their belt. When was the last time you power washed the grips? Maybe try that? What has your diet and sleep been like in the last 2 years? Any other variables? Taken on a stressful job, or had children? Have you tried training with a partner or listening to Rage Against the Machine while hangboarding? I find these can help with pain tolerance  Can't speak much from experience, only just finished my 6th cycle and just now getting past the 'noob gainz'. |
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Post by tetrault on Sept 27, 2017 12:53:06 GMT -7
Thanks jonfrisby. Might be talking to you in more detail about your other HB workouts at some point. Thanks for the response Chris. I would be pretty psyched and motivated by the numbers you are getting! If you stick to it and keep that improvement going you'll be getting on 14s long before your joints wear out  I would also love to hear from the Anderson's, or anyone else who has completed a bunch of rounds of RPTM repeaters. Jet - Washing the HB may be a good idea, thanks. Diet: I would say my diet has improved in quality the longer I have been training. The one thing I did start doing right around the 2015 stagnation was to cut weight post HB phase going into performance phase, then regain during ARC/hyp the following season. Average weight remains within 2lbs or so since I have tracked (2014), and I have not fluctuated more than 7-8lbs during the bulk/cut. I think the timing is coincidental, but would be ecstatic if breaking the plateau would be as simple as eating more... Sleep: never great. If anything, slight improvement this year as I have been thinking this could be an issue. Work: low stress job that changed slightly about 2 years ago as well, but not significantly. Family: luck streak continues - wife is awesome and has not left me Big changes are coming as we are expecting a baby in the near future, but was no more than a tentative plan in 2015. Trying hard/motivation: in many instances, I have more of a problem going too far and throwing form/tendon safety out the window than holding back. In my early HB days, I listened to heavyish music and would start with ambitious weights, often failing on my 2nd or 3rd workout (or even on my 1st), with shoulders sky high on every grip on the later workouts. I have found that silence helps me to get the right level of "relaxed cranking"; pulling hard, but letting a foot down before the form goes to junk. Thanks again and apologies for the multiple wordy posts! |
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Post by mkane on Sept 28, 2017 10:09:24 GMT -7
I rotate between three protocols (max hangs, 7/53, and 5/5*6 repeaters). I really think this prevents stagnation. I think (hope?) Jonfrisby is on the right track here. Power Company Climbing recently did a podcast with Steve Maisch where he said he recently switched to a 5-3-1 style workout with repeaters in an attempt to break a long term plateau from max-hangs. Weight lifting literature would seem to suggest that the body adapts to rep schemes more than exercises. Everybody over at climbharder seems to be picking up on Steve's 5/3/1 idea, but hopefully anything that changes the work/rest ratio or TUT would be helpful. For what its worth, I've hit a similar plateau using max hangs (which I previously switched to as a way to break a repeaters plateau) and, this cycle, am trying to cycle through a workout of 15 second hangs, then a workout of 10 second hangs, then a workout of 7 second hangs. My strength cycle started up a couple days before Steve's podcast, otherwise I'd probably be trying the 5/3/1 thing too. |
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Post by tetrault on Sept 28, 2017 15:04:17 GMT -7
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Post by Chris W on Sept 28, 2017 17:26:14 GMT -7
One brief aside I would add is that I definitely feel my fingers are "safe" doing the rock prodigy method. One concern I would have with doing max hangs would be injury. Just a thought...
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Post by scojo on Sept 28, 2017 21:25:06 GMT -7
One brief aside I would add is that I definitely feel my fingers are "safe" doing the rock prodigy method. One concern I would have with doing max hangs would be injury. Just a thought... In my experience, max hangs are not nearly as injury inducing as other training exercises like campus boarding or even climbing. If you warm up slowly and methodically, you can detect any potential pain or tweakiness before you start your working sets. Like the repeaters, it's very controlled compared to climbing or campus boarding. |
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Post by jonfrisby on Sept 29, 2017 7:42:54 GMT -7
One brief aside I would add is that I definitely feel my fingers are "safe" doing the rock prodigy method. One concern I would have with doing max hangs would be injury. Just a thought... The weights are closer to your true limit, but on repeaters you get close to failure anyway. Is there a difference in terms of injury risk from failing on the 6th rep at 80% your 3 second max or on failing at 10 seconds at 95% of your 3 second max? I really don't know the answer. I also think that with max hangs, you can chalk up, brush the board, and generally get a better set up on the grips. I am sometimes worried about slipping off in late reps on repeaters. |
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Post by tetrault on Sept 29, 2017 7:52:06 GMT -7
Thanks so far!
I understand avoiding injury is extremely important, but I was hoping we could continue to discuss breaking through a RPTM HB plateau, per the original post.
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Post by Lundy on Sept 29, 2017 8:49:23 GMT -7
So my experimenting on myself has been far from well controlled, given that I had that significant finger injury last year, but here's what I've done...
I had done maybe 10 repeater cycles and was also starting to see less than impressive gains. I switched to max hangs for a year, and saw great increases in my max hang ability, but it didn't really translate to repeaters when I went back to them. Since the finger injury, I've only just now done another full, hard, repeater HB cycle, and I crushed it, which was a bit shocking. I have done two things different, and I'm not sure which one is the driver, but here you go...
First, I stopped stopping my HB workouts during power and PE for two reasons. First, I was still building back from the injury, and it seemed like HB was the most controlled way to gradually increase the stimulus. Second, in previous repeater sessions, I felt like I was just losing too much strength between the end of a repeater cycle and the start of the next. So now I do a repeater cycle like normal, but then when I move into power and HB, I do one HB workout for every two "other" workouts.
Combined with that, I switch protocols. So when I'm in a HB phase, I'm doing the standard 7/6/5 x 7s/3s repeaters. However, once I move into power and PE (and performance), I switch to a 5-3-1 protocol. I actually started this a few months ago, and was so surprised to hear Maisch talking about it on Power Company the other day. I LOVE this protocol...
So, maybe the reason I broke through was stopping taking such long breaks without hangboarding. Maybe it was just switching protocols to keep the stimulus fresh, and maybe it was the 5/3/1 protocol itself. Who knows. But I just did the best repeater cycle I've ever done, even though it was my first all-out repeater cycle since injuring my finger last November, and I'm super psyched for this season! For what it's worth, it also translated into my best every campus workouts, starting right from week 1.
Good luck figuring this out!
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Post by jonfrisby on Sept 29, 2017 9:38:17 GMT -7
Would love some more details on your 5-3-1 Lundy |
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Post by tetrault on Sept 29, 2017 10:01:17 GMT -7
Great info Lundy, thanks!
So, just to clarify, your schedule was something like:
Typical RPTM HB cycle of roughly 8-10 workouts every 3 days
Switched to typical RPTM power cycle. Limit bouldered and/or campused for 2 workouts, then performed a 5/3/1 HB workout, then repeated, resting 1-2 days in between each workout.
Then similar protocol going into PE (maybe with slightly more rest between PE workouts per RPTM recommendations)
The 5/3/1 HB workout:
1 Rep = 10 sec hang, 10 sec rest
4 minute rest between sets and grips
5 reps, 3 reps, then 1 rep on each grip.
3 grips total (open, half crimp, pinch)
Roughly how much weight did you add between sets?
Did you try to improve your baseline weight with subsequent 5-3-1 workouts, or maintain what you started with?
Thanks!
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Post by mkane on Sept 29, 2017 10:27:29 GMT -7
For Maisch's 5/3/1 you would use the rep schemes and weight percentages outlined here but using the 7-on/3-off repeater as one "rep": www.t-nation.com/workouts/531-how-to-build-pure-strength (FYI its t-nation, so expect a few f-bombs) Lundy, I'm also interested in hearing more about your 5/3/1 program |
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