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Post by climbnkev on Aug 22, 2017 20:56:08 GMT -7
I did read about your concern for the fog, but I really think you are overthinking things. Buy SS T Nuts and bolts and you should be more than fine. Cover the back of your wall with steel panels and moisture will not be able to get in. Use anti-gall lube on your bolts and put bolts in every T Nut if you want to get really crazy. It's a climbing wall not a painting.....build it right and it will last 20+ years easy. Personally I would put a roof on it and use galvanized T Nuts and bolts. Take the $5k you save building a pergola vs a shed and buy a bunch of holds and padding. Build a Tension Board if your wife is concerned about aesthetics, that's almost outdoor sculpture.
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richb
Junior Member
Posts: 55
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Post by richb on Nov 21, 2017 7:13:48 GMT -7
daustin did you end up deciding on a shed and a wall design? I am mulling over my options for new construction starting next spring and looking for ideas.
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Post by daustin on Nov 21, 2017 12:35:51 GMT -7
daustin did you end up deciding on a shed and a wall design? I am mulling over my options for new construction starting next spring and looking for ideas. So the unfortunate reality is that this project took a back seat to some other more pressing needs, and with my wife's due date in 2 weeks, it will likely not be until sometime next year, post-baby that I get a wall built. The good news is that I found a contractor who is also a climber that I can hire for the job. We've talked a bit about plans for how to build the wall, and as you may have picked up from this thread, I've moved away from the idea of a shed. Since I live in the Bay Area, I can climb outside year round at a pretty comfortable temperature, so I don't really need a shed to protect against snow or scorching sun. I'm worried about how much salty moisture there is since I live near the coast, but it would likely be much more cost effective to just beef up the wood & hardware I'm using rather than enclose everything in a shed. Instead, I'll likely build a pergola type structure to offer some protection against e.g. rain and to create a structure that the wall can be attached to. Something along these lines: i.pinimg.com/564x/55/f1/d5/55f1d545315aea1a8bfce03391d5e3b5.jpgFor the wall itself, I'm leaning towards going with a Moonboard at a 30 degree angle, with an off-set grid of t-nuts for some low-profile juggier holds. The downside would be this wouldn't give me true apples to apples comparison with others climbing on a MB, but I can live with that -- it would still give me the benefit of a huge library of problems, and if it means I have to search for V9 in the app instead of V7, so be it. I'm not sure how much ARCing I'll be able to do at 30 degrees, but feels like a more versatile angle for all different kinds of training.
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richb
Junior Member
Posts: 55
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Post by richb on Nov 22, 2017 9:37:57 GMT -7
That pergola moonboard plan sounds great. Congrats in advance and good luck with everything! I'll start a new thread seeking ideas for new construction unless that thread already exists on here.
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Post by daustin on Apr 7, 2018 8:17:38 GMT -7
Finally heard back from the contractor i contacted at the end of last year, and he sent some sketches for the home wall! So psyched. Now that it looks like this might finally happen my wife is getting a bit of cold feet and wants to make sure our backyard won’t be totally dominated by the wall (which is totally fair, I also love having a multi purpose backyard), but she’s somewhat reluctantly on board.
The thing I’m still the most worried about is the weathering. To beat a dead horse, it’s super foggy and salty around here pretty much every day. Less concerned about it for the wood or fasteners at this point, as I’ll spring for corrosion-resistant materials. But from a holds perspective I’m not sure how slimy they’ll get every morning with the fog, and also whether wood holds are feasible or if they’d get too soggy and even rot?
The draft plans include plastic/polycarb paneling on the sides of the wall, which could help keep the wall dry, but could also interfere with flagging or other movements along the edges of the wall. Also it would be ugly. I was thinking maybe I could put a retractable canvas cover on each side so there was still some protection when not in use, but could roll it up out of the way when climbing. Or maybe it’s all overthinking and nothing aside from fully enclosing the wall in a shed would provide meaningful fog-proofing so I should just leave the sides naked, so to speak...
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Post by cozisco on Apr 7, 2018 12:04:42 GMT -7
... and also whether wood holds are feasible or if they’d get too soggy and even rot? My worry would be shrink-swell cracking if the wood holds absorbs moisture, dry out on the sunny days and go through that repeated wet-dry cycling. Luckily my tension board is indoors (and too young to show a boatload of wear and tear) but the wood does absorb moisture. Supposedly the worst thing for it would be repeatedly climbing on it without chalk because the holds can suck up moisture from greasy hands. If you haven't already, my recommendation would be to ask Will and Ben at Tension Climbing this exact question. They're always super helpful answering design questions, recommending hold sets and generally geeking out over a home wall.
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Post by climbnkev on Apr 10, 2018 21:29:54 GMT -7
Wood holds could be a concern. I have the small tension set on my outdoor wall and they have been fine lasting through the winter. I also have a few dozen other wood holds that have been on my wall for the last year with no real sign of weather related damage. That said I chose not to drop another $2500 on the two large Tension hold sets due to fear of moisture related issues. I believe Ben and Will will warn you against it as well.
I do live in a virtual desert, at 8k feet on the side of a mountain so see different kinds of weather related issues. I have a retractable cover for my wall built from a 12x16 tarp that I can cinch down pretty well, but still get snow in during large storms. I'm mostly concerned with keeping my pads dry. In your case just stick with plastic holds and you should be OK. Yea you may need to skip early morning sessions, but angle your wall south so it dries out with sun and gets cross ventilation from the offshore winds. I would bet you could build a nice canvas cover with snaps to keep out most of the moisture if you wanted.
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Post by daustin on Apr 10, 2018 21:50:07 GMT -7
Ooh love the canvas cover snap idea, that would probably be even more effective than retractable awnings and cheaper to boot
I was thinking of using the space behind the wall as a pad hutch, though not sure if it’ll be enough room. Also have some dead space under the stairs for our deck so might build a little pad hutch there if needed.
And yeah wood holds seem like too much of a gamble, especially with how expensive tension is. Thinking I’ll probably wind up doing a moonboard after all.
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Post by jlarson on Apr 12, 2018 14:17:00 GMT -7
Hmm my situation might have some relevance here as I also live on the coast in foggy northern California...
I did build a pergola for my moonboard and in retrospect it would have been better not to. I echo climbinkev's sentiments...the money (~$400? in tin sheets and additional lumbar?) would have been better spent on climbing stuff or just straight up parked into an index fund haha.
I was hoping the pergola would protect the board from the rain so I could climb regardless of the conditions...it kinda works for this but the problem, as daustin stated, is the humidity/fog. Even if the board isn't getting actively rained on, the moisture/humidity makes a MB pretty much unclimbable anyways.
Initially I was hoping to get early morning sessions in but that's when the fog is worst. Instead, I just climb later in the day when the fog has burned off or at night with a flood light.
Also, I DID NOT use stainless steel bolts and tnuts. They were significantly more expensive and I'll have to take the board down when I finish my grad program in another two years. The bolts are definitely corroding (~8 months after construction), but are not fixed.
Hope that helps!
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Post by daustin on Apr 12, 2018 16:37:23 GMT -7
Hmm my situation might have some relevance here as I also live on the coast in foggy northern California... I did build a pergola for my moonboard and in retrospect it would have been better not to. I echo climbinkev's sentiments...the money (~$400? in tin sheets and additional lumbar?) would have been better spent on climbing stuff or just straight up parked into an index fund haha. I was hoping the pergola would protect the board from the rain so I could climb regardless of the conditions...it kinda works for this but the problem, as daustin stated, is the humidity/fog. Even if the board isn't getting actively rained on, the moisture/humidity makes a MB pretty much unclimbable anyways. Initially I was hoping to get early morning sessions in but that's when the fog is worst. Instead, I just climb later in the day when the fog has burned off or at night with a flood light. Also, I DID NOT use stainless steel bolts and tnuts. They were significantly more expensive and I'll have to take the board down when I finish my grad program in another two years. The bolts are definitely corroding (~8 months after construction), but are not fixed. Hope that helps! Thanks for sharing, do you mind if I ask where in NorCal? I'm in the Outer Sunset in SF so the fog is pretty ubiquitous, especially in mornings as you noted. Do you have anything aside from the pergola roofing to provide fog protection? I'm wondering if you think climbnkev's suggestion of a snap-on canvas cover would work? Did you use galvanized or zinc plated fasteners?
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Post by jlarson on Apr 14, 2018 14:21:16 GMT -7
Sure, North Bay on the coast, likely a similar fog situation as yours. My structure is open on all sides with only a roof on top.
climbnkev's suggestion is clever and would likely keep the board dry and prolong it's lifespan. I'm doubtful it would make it climbable early morning in the fog even if it was kept dry overnight.
For example, my board will stay dry while it's raining but it's the humidity that makes the holds hard to control (especially the yellow ones) so I don't really bother trying to climb while it's raining anymore. Rainy days I hangboard or suck it up and go to a gym for the day.
I purchased my fasteners from Atomik climbing holds for 10 cents a pop, not sure whether what I got was galvanized or zinc plated.
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Post by daustin on Apr 14, 2018 16:13:44 GMT -7
Got it, thanks. I'm thinking that the snap-on cover is probably inexpensive enough to be worth a shot, but fair point that it might be a moot point depending on the fog/humidity. My gut says that I think if it's kept dry overnight that it doesn't get too foggy/humid here to make it unclimbable, but I could be totally off base...
Thanks again!
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Post by trainingjames on Apr 17, 2018 10:23:00 GMT -7
Super late to the conversation but I wanted to chime in on the Stainless discussion as we've had some experience with it. For a couple of years I was on the provincial climbing board for Nova Scotia (Canada) It's basically a huge seaside (Atlantic) peninsula-esk province where we had to deal with rust out from the decades of development that's gone on.
In recent years we have switched over to Titanium Bolts for new development on our seaside cliffs, and have even retrobolted some rusted out Stainless. Stainless is good but does eventually go (at least for us) - if you're only looking for a 5 year period you'll be fine. Otherwise go with Titanium.
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nkane
New Member
Posts: 2
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Post by nkane on Jan 10, 2019 18:55:47 GMT -7
Hi daustin,
I'm wondering if you ended up building your wall and if you can share your experiences. I'm in the East Bay (so less than 30% of the fog you experience, and without the salt) and now beginning planning for construction of a backyard wall. I'd love to do a Tension Board but leery of the moisture issues. I had also been thinking about a snap-on canvas cover, so glad I'm not the only one to think of that idea.
Were you happy with the contractor you spoke to? Would you be interested in sharing his/her name if so? A private message would be fine.
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Post by wheels619 on Sept 18, 2019 14:11:41 GMT -7
daustin which solution did you end up going with? I'm going to be in a similar situation ( live in the bay area and expecting a newborn soon) and would like a moonboard in the backyard. climbnkev have you built a moonboard with the pergola setup? got any photos?
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