Chris Webb Parsons' hanboarding program - advices ?

[dam]

vimeo.com/61430224
www.youtube.com/watch?v=pljRJSpJMvA

Hey,

Got a few questions about hangboarding and strength training.
I've been doing this program (see link above) for a few season. Works well for me (cause I'm basically just climbing on crimps in my place, crimps and crimps) and because of the different arm hangs (140°, 120°, 90°) that I found more relevant (am I wrong ?). Right now I need pure crimp strength for a few projects (this one for ex, but I'm not using the one finger crimp... : vimeo.com/42088035)
I personally use a pulley and remove weight for this (easier to track my progression).



What do you think about it ?
Am I right to do this as soon as what I'm looking for at the moment is pure crimp strength ?
(I'm climbing french 8a/+, 7b/+ OS)

Thx for your help !

[dam]

and my question was : is it relevant to do this in place of the RCTM hangboard protocol ?

[daustin]

I don't have any personal experience with this program, but ever since I first saw this video a few years ago I've been skeptical. Seems like a classic "super strong climber recommends training program with no real rationale and with tons of unsupported claims". Not trying to be a Negative Nancy, but a couple (paraphrased) quotes in the first minute or so really make me scratch my head and question the credibility taking CWP's advice:

"It's important that all your hangs you want your fingers to be half crimped. The reason is that your tendons naturally want to form a straight line going down your arm, so if you keep your fingers bent you're forcing them to stay bent and when you put your weight on it your fingers are going to naturally open up and you're forcing them to stay bent so you're going to get maximum gains from that hand position..."

"There's no point in hanging on tiny little holds if you can't hang on a big hold one handed."

Personally, I don't feel like doing 1-handed hangs is worthwhile for me, both from an efficiency standpoint (twice as many hangs as 2-handed) as well as a shoulder tweakiness standpoint. I also am not convinced that the different arm angles is really worthwhile to train in a HB workout -- I'm already targeting lockoff strength through my climbing & pulling SEs, so I'd rather focus my HB workout entirely on my fingers.

That said, I don't think it's a terrible program or anything -- it sounds pretty similar in a lot of ways to max hangs as described by Steve Maisch or Eva Lopez. To me, I find Maisch or Lopez to be more credible than CWP so I'd err on the side of sticking to one of their programs if you're looking for a max hangs type workout.

Regarding grip selection -- definitely sounds like you should be prioritizing crimp grips since it's most relevant to you, but I'd caution against neglecting other grips entirely. Seems like HB training is more about working towards long-term gains (not to say there aren't also short-term gains) so I'd advocate for including grips that you feel weak on NOW so that they won't become issues in the future if you're climbing at a crag that has more pockets, or pinches, etc.

Lastly, the current thinking that I've collected from reading training literature and online content is that the RCTM HB protocol (repeaters) is more focused on strength-endurance and hypertrophy due to the medium-high intensity and high TUT, whereas a max hangs protocol (like CWP's) is more focused on strength & recruitment. This is a simplification and each protocol is probably accomplishing a little bit of everything, but I think it's a helpful way to think about the differences. In the context of an entire macrocycle, it might make more sense to do a repeaters protocol in the Strength phase (grow more muscle) before transitioning to a Power phase where you're recruiting that new muscle via limit bouldering, campusing and/or max hangs. There's a good thread over in the Strength Training (General) forum called Conjugate Systems Training that has a nice program described by JCM that incorporates max hangs into what's effectively a Power phase.

[tedwelser]

Jan 11, 2017 11:21:58 GMT -7 daustin said:

Personally, I don't feel like doing 1-handed hangs is worthwhile for me, both from an efficiency standpoint (twice as many hangs as 2-handed) as well as a shoulder tweakiness standpoint. I also am not convinced that the different arm angles is really worthwhile to train in a HB workout -- I'm already targeting lockoff strength through my climbing & pulling SEs, so I'd rather focus my HB workout entirely on my fingers.

I concur with daustin generally, and I want to reinforce a couple of his points.  This program is probably most helpful for youngish people who are already super strong in terms of finger strength, are sorta lazy in terms of record keeping, can do one arm pull ups easily, and have no injuries, especially not elbow tendon problems.  

The one arm lock-offs at different elbow angles is a recipe for elbow injuries if you are not already quite strong.  
However, I think if the venn diagram of attributes fits it can be a great program for really focusing in on the limiting factors in hard bouldering, both outdoors and indoors in a woody or moonboard world.  I am too old and have too many latent injuries to do one arm hangs with an arm bent, this just causes more pain than actually bouldering, while hanging straight arm does not bother my elbows at all.  So, if I do a two arm workout, even with substantial weight it is less costly for me.  But like I said, if you are fully healthy then you can get good intensity / recruitment from this.  

I would add that many folks who are into training for bouldering with heavy hangs will cycle between a max weight protocol (like this) for about 4 weeks and a repeater program for about 4 weeks, then deload, and start over.  


 

[dam]

Thanks for your reply,

and what about the different arm hangs ? Are they accurate compared to always making hangs with nearly bent arms ? Have you got any clue about that ? (I'm just wondering)

[tedwelser]

Jan 17, 2017 3:25:30 GMT -7 dam said:

Thanks for your reply,

and what about the different arm hangs ? Are they accurate compared to always making hangs with nearly bent arms ? Have you got any clue about that ? (I'm just wondering)

Hey-   I don't know about the efficacy of the different angle hangs for building finger strength.   I think the main benefit to the fingers is likely just the intensity and the TUT.   I would guess that the biggest plus of the different arm position protocol is all of the stabilizing muscles engaged while hanging are also engaged in stabilization work on hard boulder problems.  

I think that in a more complete training program (including campusing, supplemental exercises like one arm rows, etc) that you would also be developing helpful stabilization muscles.   I personally tend to prefer something like that because it gives greater control over tuning the exact intensity and lends itself to easier record keeping.