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Post by willblack on Dec 24, 2016 10:30:21 GMT -7
So I recently bought a house and would like to build a home wall. Unfortunately there's nowhere inside the house to build a wall, and my budget is somewhat limited. I really like the idea of building a moonboard, as I have always struggled with steep power crimping more than any other style of climbing. The current plan is to build a moonboard in the yard with a very minimal roof extending from the top of the board to provide some shelter in rainy weather. I'm hoping to build the wall as cheaply and simply as possible and am having a hard time deciding how I want to support the wall in the front. On one hand, the simplest way to do this would be to use 4x4s directly attached on either side of the wall (see picture from google images on link below), but I'm worried about swinging into them when climbing. For the folks who have moonboards, do you think this would be a serious problem? I can think of a couple ways to avoid this issue but they would all be slightly more complicated and costly. i.ytimg.com/vi/kVdCUIccuys/maxresdefault.jpg |
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Post by climber511 on Dec 24, 2016 10:46:53 GMT -7
I would simply extend the top cross piece out to the sides more and then install your uprights out there away from the actual wall section - this would be at minimal expense. I would also consider putting enough slope on the roof section for water to actually run off quickly - it will give far fewer problems over time. Are you planning to roof over the back side of the wall for protection also?
There's no such thing as too big a roof over an outdoor wall. With some overhang you can hang a couple tarps in the winter and with a space heater climb all year in comfort.
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Post by daustin on Dec 24, 2016 12:08:44 GMT -7
Hey Will
I don't have any advice, but wanted to ask what kind of climate you live in? I'm hoping to build an outdoor moonboard in the near-ish future, pending feedback on weatherization. I live in a very foggy seaside environment, which means I'll need to splurge on pricier wood and hardware to prevent rot and corrosion. Was wondering if you might have a similar situation and if so, how you're handling it.
I've also compiled a bunch of links to outdoor walls & moonboards that I can share once I'm on my computer, if you're interested.
Good luck!
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Post by erick on Dec 24, 2016 12:09:09 GMT -7
So I just finished my outdoor training space and there is a thread about it here rockprodigytraining.proboards.com/thread/1056/outdoor-training-spaceI solved your problem by building a roof that extends a little more than 6' from the top of the wall. This does create a different stability problem as the whole wall want top fall over on itself unless you add some serious diagonal bracing. Doing it this way has the benefit of adding TONS of weather protection, I can climb in a complete downpour and have never worried about bumping into the diagonal bracing I added. If I did it again I would use 6x6 posts instead of 4x4s. Let me know if you have more questions about my design. Eric |
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Post by sloggish on Dec 25, 2016 12:32:42 GMT -7
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Post by willblack on Dec 26, 2016 7:06:10 GMT -7
climber511, that's a good idea. I had considered that and I'm thinking that's the direction I'm leaning towards, and I'm definitely going to put a roof over the back of the wall that extends above the top to provide shelter during rain.
Daustin: I live in Western North Carolina. It rains a lot here especially in spring/summer, but it's not constantly wet. I'm using pressure treated 6x6s for the verticals and pressure treated 2x6 for the wall studding.
Erick: I read the thread with pictures of your wall and drooled all over my keyboard, I'd love to build a similar setup but it may be too expensive for me. Do you know how much you spent on your wall, not including holds?
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Post by jwills on Dec 26, 2016 7:43:49 GMT -7
Everybody has made great suggestions. The only other "tip" I'd add (that you probably know already) is that you'll have to buy stainless steel bolts. The more traditional bolts will rust within a couple months of being exposed to the elements. Overall though i think the moonboard is the best training tool created!!!! Short of the rock prodigy training center... obviously  . |
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Post by climber511 on Dec 26, 2016 9:13:04 GMT -7
I had an outdoor wall (12' x 16') from around 1986 till 98. Regular plywood construction (not marine grade) and regular tee nuts and bolts (not SS). I did paint it with porch paint both sides and kept it up every few years. I had no problems with it - but I did have a good "roof" covering everything. Every year I would put a drop or two of oil in each tee nut and on each bolt - it lasted a decade (in Ohio weather) and was still going strong when I took it down and moved parts of it indoors to our Rec Center.
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Post by erick on Dec 26, 2016 10:47:18 GMT -7
Willblack: My wall probably cost me about $1800 but is twice as wide as yours will be. It is also taller than a moon board and I build a campus board in which was at least an extra $100 in materials. I also used pressure treated wood but used 2 coats of primer and 3 coats regular exterior pain on ALL sides and edges of my plywood. Im not sure if that is cheaper or more expensive than some of the other treatments for plywood mentioned. Add a metal roof and building it to hold a snow load and the price jumps up and up and up!
You could probably build a very weather protected moonboard for less than $1000. Let me know if you want better pics of my setup.
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Post by daustin on Dec 29, 2016 15:01:07 GMT -7
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Post by willblack on Dec 29, 2016 15:32:28 GMT -7
I decided to go with something similar to what climber511 suggested (supporting the top of the wall with a beam extending between two timbers a few feet out from the wall). I now have two 16-foot 6x6s sticking out of my yard, which makes it look like I'm in the midst of building a gigantic volleyball court. Guess I'm building a moonboard!
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Post by climbnkev on Jan 1, 2017 8:10:56 GMT -7
Hi Will,
I would recommend building only the parts directly touching ground out of PT material for a couple reasons. One, PT lumber is very wet and shrinks/warps considerably as it dries. Yes you can get KD-AT ( Kiln dried after Pressure treatment) joists but if you are putting a roof over the wall this is really an unnecessary additional expense. Second KD material is corrosive to fasteners, so you will need to use stainless steel, hot dipped galvanized, or ceramic coated screws for the wall. Again an unnecessary expense if the wall is covered and you are not in a sea-side location.
For your build I would extend the joists an extra 2 feet (14' vs 12') to die into or rest upon the beam between your posts. Think about extending your roof to the sides 16-24" with extra 2x6 joists for additional protection from the elements. These can be secured with ladder blocking to the outside 2 joists and wouldn't need to be supported by the beams. An additional 2 posts and a beam at the bottom of the wall would be a good way to anchor the bottom of the wall. The bottom plate of your kicker panel could rest in gravel and would need to be Pressure treated. Look forward to seeing the completed build!
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Post by willblack on Jan 19, 2017 7:10:50 GMT -7
I climbed on my moonboard for the first time yesterday, and it's pretty amazing. I was worried about the problems being sandbagged, but everything I climbed felt fairly graded. I like the holds a lot. The PU they use is harder than most modern holds made in the US, which makes them feel closer to real rock, but they are brittle and prone to chipping. This isn't really a big deal though, as they won't be getting thrown in boxes and put on and taken off the wall a bunch. Many of the holds are also fairly sharp, but not ridiculously so. It's nice that many of them have enough "bite" to make them easier to stick dynamically. I really like most of the holds, but my one big complaint is that many of them are pinchable. There aren't that many actual pinches, but a lot of the edges have extremely usable thumb catches. As with many indoor crimps, this means that the easiest way to hold them is with on open hand/pinch grip used far more often in the gym than outside. It's hard to avoid this since artificial holds protrude from the rock more than a lot of real holds, but a good shaper can avoid it. I also would like to see more pockets, but that may just be because I love pockets so much and tend to seek out pockety routes. Overall though, I think it will be a great tool. Steep, powerful, bouldery routes are a weakness for me and I think the moon board will probably help me get better at this style. It's definitely not a tool for real beginners or people who are already good at thuggy stuff.
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Post by tedwelser on Jan 19, 2017 12:46:47 GMT -7
I climbed on my moonboard for the first time yesterday, and it's pretty amazing. I was worried about the problems being sandbagged, but everything I climbed felt fairly graded. I like the holds a lot. The PU they use is harder than most modern holds made in the US, which makes them feel closer to real rock, but they are brittle and prone to chipping. This isn't really a big deal though, as they won't be getting thrown in boxes and put on and taken off the wall a bunch. Many of the holds are also fairly sharp, but not ridiculously so. It's nice that many of them have enough "bite" to make them easier to stick dynamically. I really like most of the holds, but my one big complaint is that many of them are pinchable. There aren't that many actual pinches, but a lot of the edges have extremely usable thumb catches. As with many indoor crimps, this means that the easiest way to hold them is with on open hand/pinch grip used far more often in the gym than outside. It's hard to avoid this since artificial holds protrude from the rock more than a lot of real holds, but a good shaper can avoid it. I also would like to see more pockets, but that may just be because I love pockets so much and tend to seek out pockety routes. Overall though, I think it will be a great tool. Steep, powerful, bouldery routes are a weakness for me and I think the moon board will probably help me get better at this style. It's definitely not a tool for real beginners or people who are already good at thuggy stuff. We just added the yellow holds to our setup and I think they really bring out the closed crimp! But, yeah, a lot of the black and white holds are multi directional and let you get your thumb involved, which I don't mind, lol. Also, the yellow only problems seem a good bit harder at the "easier grades" than the full 3 set problems, but you just have to take those problems with a grain of salt. You can sort of see on our board how we integrated the kilter holds into the offset grid. You could do the same with some pockets and thumbless edges. Also, several problems have you using the black and white holds as gastons, and usually you end up just crimping them because you can't really involve your thumb on the smaller edges then.  |
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Post by willblack on Jan 19, 2017 13:05:09 GMT -7
Hey Ted, I've looked at your moonboard before and I specifically drilled extra t nuts so I could add holds and make it a moon/woody hybrid that I could train power endurance on and set more varied problems on more easily. Once I have the money I plan on getting a set of low profile jugs, as well as a bunch of fossil pockets and comfy crimps. I didn't have enough bolts to put the yellow holds on yesterday, but they just went on today and although I haven't climbed on them yet, I can tell that they will fill in that gap I mentioned earlier.
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