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Post by daustin on Oct 31, 2016 16:17:41 GMT -7
So I'm tweaking my HB grip selection for my upcoming cycle, primarily as I've realized that, even with removing significant amounts of weight, I'm too weak for the thin crimp on the RPTC without it feeling tweaky/dangerous. I'm already training the semi/half crimp on the middle section of the SVDER, and I intend to have this suffice for my small edge training until I'm consistently adding weight to baseline before moving down to the thin crimp.
This leaves a gap in my grip selection, and the more I think about it, the more it seems like the best choice is not to replace the empty grip slot with anything at all. This would mean sacrificing ~3 min of TUT (2 sets per grip), but I feel like this wouldn't be such a bad thing.
My grip selection is as of now:
0) Warm up Jug
1) Open Hand 4F Edge on LVDER
2) 2F MR
3) Thin Crimp [will not be using for next HB cycle, so this is effectively empty]
4) Wide Pinch
5) Semi/Half Crimp on SVDER
6) 3F MRP
I'm going to move the Semi/Half Crimp up to slot 3, which means I have an empty slot for 5 or 6 depending on where I put the 3F MRP.
The reason I'm reluctant to 'backfill' this slot with another grip is that right now, I feel like I'm pretty gassed by Grip #6 that I have to lower my baseline pretty significantly from what it would be if I trained the grip earlier in the workout. I've learned this from experience with the wide pinch -- when I started training it, I literally could not make any progress no matter how much weight I removed. I then moved it from slot 6 to earlier in the workout, and I raised my baseline quite a bit and made significant progress over the cycle. This makes me suspect that Grip #6 might be getting into Junk Miles territory and the extra 3 min of TUT isn't really adding anything.
Does anyone want to talk me out of moving from 6 grips to 5 grips? Will I regret giving up on that last 3 min of TUT? If I was going to keep a 6th grip, I'd probably go with the 2F IM, but I feel like this pair gets strong enough with the 4F work that I do (feels like it more so than 2F MR at least).
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Post by Lundy on Oct 31, 2016 17:56:07 GMT -7
What sort of holds do you normally climb on outside, or what are the holds on the project you're training for, and how do they relate to what you've selected here?
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Post by daustin on Oct 31, 2016 20:30:44 GMT -7
My local crag tends to be steep with lots of flat or slopey deep edges as well as wide pinches. My next trip / performance peak will be at Red Rocks where I'll focus on sport and maybe some bouldering, so I also want to have decent strength on smaller edges and pockets. In general my MR and small edge strength seems to be a relative weakness to other grips.
I did my first workout tonight and went ahead with the IM as my
6th grip. Maybe I went into it with a preconceived bias, but it did feel kind of junky. Another idea I had is to start a soft switch to the 3 set routine for a couple of grips -- maybe the two VDER grips. Would keep the TUT while letting me focus on priority grips as opposed to diluting effort with a lower priority 6th grip.
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Post by joev9 on Nov 1, 2016 5:53:09 GMT -7
That was what I did when I switched from intermediate to advanced protocol. I did one whole cycle of HB'ing with 4 holds at 2 sets and 2 holds (my most important) at 3 sets. Next cycle, I went all in on 3 sets per hold for 6 different holds.
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erk
Junior Member
Posts: 83 
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Post by erk on Nov 1, 2016 12:05:05 GMT -7
It sounds like you have a good plan for transitioning to the advanced protocol. But..
One thing you could try with the thin crimp is take off even more weight and treat it more like a rehab phase (even though it's not). I injured my ring finger a few seasons ago. I still continued with MR hangs on the hangboard, but with a significant load taken off. While I didn't make any gains during the rehab season, I managed to rehab my finger and was totally ready to crank on the hangboard the next season. I even set some new bests!
The goal for you wouldn't be rehab, but to get the crimp feeling less tweaky.
Even if it feels the amount of weight you are taking off for the thin crimp isn't intense enough, it probably is.
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Post by Lundy on Nov 1, 2016 13:00:25 GMT -7
I agree with Erk. If, as you say, small crimps are a big weakness, and you're going to take the time and money to travel to places where crimping is important, than I would take enough weight off to be able to safely train the crimp.
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Post by daustin on Nov 1, 2016 19:38:40 GMT -7
Thanks erk and Lundy. I've done that same kind of pseudo-rehab for the 2F MR, another of my weaker grips, and it's worked fairly well. Not a bad idea for the thin crimp. The biggest barrier to me doing that right now is motivational -- I'd have to buy more weight to remove!
Something that's in the back of my head is the research (that I vaguely remember) that suggested it's better to hang higher loads on bigger holds than lower loads on smaller holds. My memory is hazy enough that I have no recollection of the study design or what data they produced that would lead to this conclusion, but it's certainly a factor in my plan on removing the thin crimp altogether for now and focusing on the thin part of the SVDER.
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Post by Lundy on Nov 1, 2016 20:05:55 GMT -7
Daustin,
I think the key is joint angle, right? If you have to crimp on your projects, then you need to train crimping. You can do this on the micro-edge with lots of weight removed, or you can crimp on the smallest edge of the SVDER with less weight removed and step up to the micro after a few cycles, but I think if you have a weak crimp, you have to train crimp.
Personally, if you're worried about too much TUT leading to diminished capacity later in your workout, I'd drop the MRP, as that, to me, is the least specific hold. I would suggest learning how to use your pinkie in the grip positions when you'll actually use your pinkie. Since you already have open, semi-, and closed-crimps, a pinch, and a pocket, I'm not sure what that's adding. I'm sure lots of folks here will disagree, but I think if you focus on turning your wrists out and getting your pinkie involved in each grip you're using, you should be able to make progress that way... Figuring that out actually helped my climbing dramatically a few years ago when I figured out how to engage my pinkie on very small crimps.
Just my two cents...
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Post by tedwelser on Nov 1, 2016 20:28:32 GMT -7
Daustin, I think the key is joint angle, right? If you have to crimp on your projects, then you need to train crimping. You can do this on the micro-edge with lots of weight removed, or you can crimp on the smallest edge of the SVDER with less weight removed and step up to the micro after a few cycles, but I think if you have a weak crimp, you have to train crimp. Personally, if you're worried about too much TUT leading to diminished capacity later in your workout, I'd drop the MRP, as that, to me, is the least specific hold. I would suggest learning how to use your pinkie in the grip positions when you'll actually use your pinkie. Since you already have open, semi-, and closed-crimps, a pinch, and a pocket, I'm not sure what that's adding. I'm sure lots of folks here will disagree, but I think if you focus on turning your wrists out and getting your pinkie involved in each grip you're using, you should be able to make progress that way... Figuring that out actually helped my climbing dramatically a few years ago when I figured out how to engage my pinkie on very small crimps. Just my two cents... I totally agree with Lundy in that if you want to improve your crimp your need to train it specifically in the HB routine, and it will help you remove the feeling of tweekiness. Also, the crimp grips are the major reason to shift to at least a partial advanced protocol. I do the slimper and the closed crimp on the forge and I learned that it is super helpful to do a low weight warm up set before your real sets in order to get the specific joint angles ready for work. What I do, is immediately after I finish my prior grip I do my easy warm up set on the crimpy grips. like if my functioning final set weight is -10, I do a warm up set at -40. I do it immediately after my prior grip, without a rest period because I can't afford the extra rest time, but it is easy enough that I have no trouble completing it. Then I do my real set 1 at -20 and the second real set at -10. I also think the quality of the two crimp options on the forge is a major reason to get it. That, and the sloper and pinches suiting me better than those on the original. |
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