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Post by jetjackson on Apr 27, 2016 13:02:42 GMT -7
I'm doing rehab HB at the moment, did my first session last night. I'm really trying to focus on good shoulder form at the moment and really engage that scapula, so I don't end up with a shoulder impingement issue down the track. I'm concerned that I have these massive wings sticking out the side, doesn't look right. You can see below I started out with bad form on the wide pinch, and then I've really tried to correct it in the second shot. It's not that bad when I'm doing pinch, but when I jump on the pockets, I really struggle to engage the shoulder whilst maintaining the contact strength on the pocket. I've added some random photos below. What do you think is the best form? To me, the second last one looks the best, but I just can't hang in that position.
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Post by jessebruni on Apr 27, 2016 13:47:24 GMT -7
Can of worms right here... I definitely don't know the answer to this question, but it seems like the old adage of "pack your shoulders" has some downsides in a weighted hang position. Check out this link: bretcontreras.com/when-coaching-cues-attack-packing-the-shoulder/Generally speaking you want your shoulders to be engaged, but I don't think you should be pulling the scapula down and into your back, as the scapula naturally wants to rotate up when in a hanging position with arms above your head. This thread on reddit discusses it further: https://www.reddit.com/r/climbharder/comments/3ebkr7/psa_max_hang_weight/ I personally disagree with the "head up" hanging beta, as it feels stressful on my neck, but other people seem to be able to do it just fine without pain. So with that in mind I would say the ideal hanging beta here is Mark's hang in the first picture. If it were me I'd be looking forward instead of up, but if you prefer to look up then that looks like an ideal hang.
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Post by jetjackson on Apr 27, 2016 14:57:25 GMT -7
Thanks Jesse, some good info you linked there.
If Mark jumps on here and tells me he has been using that form for many years without issues - that's good enough for me.
If I have to try and maintain those 'packed shoulders', then my shoulders will fail before my fingers will.
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Post by MarkAnderson on Apr 27, 2016 15:05:03 GMT -7
Definitely a can of worms... This thread has some links to some video examples (and discusses pros/cons).
Some random thoughts:
-I occasionally do things on the hangboard that are not recommended. I wouldn't assume that if I'm doing it, it must be safe.
-Janelle is "acting" in that pic (3rd from bottom), so I don't know how real that is.
-The second pic from the bottom...I assume he's doing pull-ups? Regardless nobody is going to be able to maintain that position through 18-or-whatever sets at your limit. (note that he doesn't have a harness on). That position is not realistic. On a side note, interesting choice of inspirational photos
Anyway, I think there are two basic positions (with variations on those, of course):
1. Elbows in the same plane as your shoulder blades. That is, if you were laying on your back, your butt, shoulder blades, elbows and forearms would all touch the ground. It looks like all the pics except pull-up guy are using this position.
2. Elbows in front of your shoulders. Pull-up pic is using this position.
The variations boil down to how flexed the elbows are, and how wide your hands are spread. Trying to do the first position with your hands spread wide and/or elbows bent a lot will feel weird/tweaky, because the upper arm is not aligned with the direction of pull (straight down). I think position #1 is better simply because it's more sustainable (throughout the length of a workout). Once you start adding a bunch of weight or a bunch of sets, #2 gets hard to maintain. However, if you're using a wide grip, it's probably better to use #2. FWIW, I use both 1 and 2. I usually start out with 1, but when I get really tired I can usually crank out another rep or two by pushing my shoulders back. It doesn't work for every grip though (SCC and Pinch come to mind).
Jesse-my head is all over the place on hard sets. That screenshot just happens to show my head up.
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Post by jessebruni on Apr 27, 2016 15:17:38 GMT -7
Jesse-my head is all over the place on hard sets. That screenshot just happens to show my head up. Good to know. I've found in my hangs that looking up briefly can give me an additional second or so of hang time, which I've assumed has something to do with the mental connection of actually being able to see the holds I'm hanging on so I can "focus harder", but like I said it doesn't feel good on my neck, and seems to pinch my traps in a weird way, so I've tried to develop the habit of keeping my neck straight and looking forward throughout the set.
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Post by Frido on May 9, 2016 17:01:49 GMT -7
On a related note and as someone with shoulder injuries as well, has anyone looked into doing some 'reverse hang boarding'? That is, having the board or something similar at the knee height, similar to finger rolls. That seems like much safer for the shoulders.
I only systematically trained on the HB once and after only two weeks and four workouts I had to stop due to shoulder problems. I then replaced the HB exercises with finger rolls which was fine for my shoulders. However, isometric training is supposed to be more efficient.
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Post by jetjackson on May 9, 2016 21:17:24 GMT -7
I'm confused. How do you put the board at knee height and put sufficient resistance on the grip?
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nate
New Member
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Post by nate on May 10, 2016 7:41:02 GMT -7
It could be something similar to the weighted pinch blocks people use. (ie pinch a 2x4 that has a dumbell hanging from it) Just replace the 2x4 with an edge you can crimp on. Stability of the apparatus would be a significant challenge. Maybe use a "hex bar" and attach a half of the RPTC to each handle. Then load up the weights and you can do "hangs" with your arms down.
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Post by jonfrisby on May 10, 2016 8:50:21 GMT -7
yeah but then it's just compression?
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Post by scojo on May 10, 2016 9:25:42 GMT -7
Something like this could be used for some grips: www.campsaver.com/rock-rings-3dMy ignorant question as someone lucky enough to not have shoulder injuries: If you can't statically hang from a hangboard without exacerbating your shoulder issues, wouldn't climbing itself be a problem?
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Post by jetjackson on May 10, 2016 11:25:31 GMT -7
Scojo has a good point.
If you have shoulder issues that prevent you from hangboarding, you probably need to address them before you actually go climbing.
My concern is preventing an overuse injury in the shoulder.
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nate
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Post by nate on May 10, 2016 11:58:22 GMT -7
Depending on how you set it up compression strength would have some effect, but if you're disciplined I think you could make it work. Actual hangboarding is obviously preferable, and fixing any shoulder issues should be a priority. But assuming you need to build finger strength without hanging from your shoulders, it seems like a potential way to do it. It would at least be more sport specific than finger rolls.
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frido
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Post by frido on May 13, 2016 6:07:38 GMT -7
You guys raise good points! Thanks a lot for the feedback and ideas. To not further hijack this thread which is about correct hangboard form, I've created a new thread on alternatives to hangboarding. rockprodigytraining.proboards.com/thread/996/alternatives-hangboardingFor those interested in the question about climbing with shoulder injuries, yes it is a problem. I've been climbing for over 10 years and have a had shoulder problems for almost as long. Originally, due to climbing unrelated trauma (catching a highline, hard falls while skiing). This has prevented me from hard sport climbing for years and I've focused on alpine, tread, ice, mixed etc. where the terrain usually isn't as steep. Partly due to some success with shoulder training (antagonists) I've been able to push my climbing a bit in the last two years and can now climb a bit harder (best OS 5.11d, RP 5.12b). Interestingly, bouldering seems to cause less shoulder problems than steep sport climbing. I'm suspicious that my rest poses (hanging on the extended shoulder) are to blame. While I saw great improvement with the hangboard within only 4 sessions, it was so hard on the shoulder that I had to stop. Fortunately, I stopped in time but I have been putting off hangboarding ever since.
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Post by MarkAnderson on May 15, 2016 19:24:39 GMT -7
What are you using for a hangboard? Have you tried using much smaller holds and removing lots of weight? Have you tried a variable-width rig?
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Post by marcusyoya on Jun 15, 2016 16:08:32 GMT -7
Conveniently, the trango board has two pieces. I know multiple people with shoulder injuries hangboard by hanging their board separately. (one facing left and one right) It takes them out of the "danger zone" and mount them on the outside of a beam about shoulder width apart (or two boards perpendicular to you) so both palms are facing inward when hanging. This alleviates the external rotation of the shoulder that can mess with shoulders. You can accidentally compress too much instead of hanging, but this is better than not training. As for shoulder position, I think the goal is to keep the muscles engaged and not accidentally dead hang on your rotator cuffs, bicep, and tricep connections.
Cheers
Marc
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