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Post by jessebruni on Apr 19, 2016 10:41:20 GMT -7
May as well just post it here
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Post by alexandra on Apr 19, 2016 12:26:22 GMT -7
Post it here... I'm sure others would enjoy reading. Even if we don't use it, it's always good to have more resources than fewer! Alright then. Even though this might be largely irrelevant to most people for climbing, attached is the program I follow during my strength phase for lifting. It consists of 3 different types of workouts A,B,C. All of the workouts start with squat/lunges/deadlift/calf raises, which are supposed to be done as fast as possible with minimal to no rest between exercises (so you do your 20 squats, put the barbell on the rack, shake out, start your lunges etc. The point here is to hit 20 rep maxes, so the first time you do it, start somewhere around 70% or your one rep max and increase every time by 5-10 lbs. By the end, you should be lifting at least your previous one rep max for 20 reps:) The rest of the program has different accessory work each day as you see. The only rests prescribed during the whole workout are the 2 min rests between blocks. The exercises within each block are supposed to be unbroken or with minimal rest. So, for example, for the weighted pull-ups, use a weight you can still do 10 unbroken pull-ups even after all the other stuff, or use no weight at all till you can do them unbroken and then increase. It is best to have all your gear for the specific block set up so you don't waste time mid-block looking for the equipment. The three variants of the workout A,B,C as written in this document have back, front and overhead squat. However, the front and overhead squat are added only for the purpose of increasing my max olympic lifts. If strength is your priority, I would only do back squat every time and add 5 lbs for the next time. You start with A, then rest the next two full days, then do B (so if A is Monday B would be Thursday), and continue on for the firs 4 workouts with 2 full days rest in between. For the next 4 workouts you take 3 full days rest in between and then 4 full days of rest in between for the last 4. The weight at this point would be very high, so the rest is needed. I do this 4 times around, which takes about two months. Each workout should take about 45 minutes and not much more, otherwise you are resting too much. I hope this helps or gives you some ideas at least. Sorry if it is a little too much information:). Let me know how if goes if you decide to do it! A. OccamsProtocol-4.pdf (41.41 KB) PS. The "score" is where you write what weight you used and if you had to break the reps, how did you break them.
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Post by jessebruni on Apr 19, 2016 12:57:28 GMT -7
Post it here... I'm sure others would enjoy reading. Even if we don't use it, it's always good to have more resources than fewer! so you do your 20 squats, put the barbell on the rack, shake out, start your lunges etc. The point here is to hit 20 rep maxes, so the first time you do it, start somewhere around 70% or your one rep max and increase every time by 5-10 lbs. By the end, you should be lifting at least your previous one rep max for 20 reps Thanks for sharing your program, I just have a few questions. Firstly am I reading this right? My 1 rep max on deadlifting right now is 295lbs. Short of magically acquiring the power of Thor I'm not going to be deadlifting that for 20 reps at the end of a 3 month program. Same goes for my 1 rep max of 90lbs added weight on my pullups. So what am I missing here? Second question: Why such high volume? Doing all these exercises in a circuit with no rest is going to increase my fitness, but it seems like in order to hit the rep targets the intensity will be way too low to improve max strength.
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Post by alexandra on Apr 19, 2016 13:20:46 GMT -7
yes, good questions. The one rep maxes are off of your squat. I use the same weight for my deadlift as for my squat while I do this. So, my 1RM back squat is 175lbs, and right now I am doing 20 reps at 145 lbs for squat (on the end of my second week), and will increase by 5 lbs every time till failure (It's kind of a similar idea to the Hangboard protocol on how to increase the weights). Then I use the same 145 lbs for lunges and deadlifts (even though my deadlift is 235lbs). The lunges might get hard so you might need to take off weight and put it back on for the deadlift. And yes, if you do the program right, with the right amount of rest and proper nutrition, at the end of it your 20 rep max for back squat becomes close if not equal to your old one rep max of squat. If increasing by 5 lbs every time gets you to failure, then increase by 2.5 lbs next time. My lifting coach did this himself and saw those huge gains and then programmed it for me. For all the other exercises, including the pull-ups, the weight increase is different. You only increase weight (5 lbs or less perhaps) once you can complete all the reps unbroken, which is challenging in itself after all the work you have done before getting to the pullups (this is even more similar to how you increase weight during hang boarding). So even if my one rep max pullup is 60 lbs, I have only now completed unbroken sets at 20 lbs and will move on to 25 lbs.
As for the volume, I had the same exact question at the start of this, and I still don't have a good answer as to why this works better than doing, say, 5 sets of 5 with rests, but I trust my coach who has both formal training (university degree) in phys ed and has done this himself repeatedly. Plus, I can now squat 80% of my 1 RM for 20 reps, while before I could only squat that much for 8-10 reps so it does seem to work better. Again, this is all experimental for me, but I spent an awful lot of time lifting and seeing very little gains, so I decided to give this a go.
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Post by alexandra on Apr 19, 2016 13:27:48 GMT -7
BTW, there must be some research around why this works, cause I have heard a few pretty legitimate lifters doing that program for strength. I will look into it more and see if I can find some papers on it and/or ask my coach for references. In reality, I was happy that someone else programs my workouts so I don't have to worry about doing it myself and was ready to do something drastically different since I had plateaued in my lifts ;p Especially after reading all the new stuff for climbing training in the book, I was kind of overwhelmed and was refraining from doing further training research
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Post by jessebruni on Apr 19, 2016 14:03:27 GMT -7
Interesting. Your explanation makes more sense than what I was thinking. As it is, I don't think I'd have the time to fit all of that in to what I was planning on doing as I'm trying to keep things much more simple. Good to have something like this to come back to though in case what I was planning on trying doesn't end up working out for me.
Thanks again!
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Post by alexandra on Apr 19, 2016 17:10:02 GMT -7
In some sense, it only takes 45 minutes twice a week, so this has been by far a much more time-efficient strength workout than anything else I have ever done. I will report back on the gains from it once it is over (can't wait to get back to working out more;p).
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tiago
New Member
Posts: 32
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Post by tiago on Apr 21, 2016 7:23:13 GMT -7
I'm not sure I understood the training... you do A-B-C-A with two full rest days between each workout, then B-C-A-B with three full days rest and then C-A-B-C with four full days? That would be 12+16+20=48 days training, am I correct?
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Post by alexandra on Apr 21, 2016 9:39:23 GMT -7
Correct. If you want to be completely precise, the rest intervals increase even more by the end (so the last two workouts have something like full 5 days between them, but I won't do that). The whole strength phase is supposed to take a bit less than 2 months.
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Post by alexandra on May 10, 2016 11:17:31 GMT -7
Quick update on the above mentioned strength program. I am on my fourth cycle (so I have done 10 workouts as per the link I shared in the previous post), and at my last back squat workout I squatted for 20 reps 5 lbs short of my previous 1RM. I am curious to see how my actual 1RM has improved. But either way, I call this a success I was also able to do a weighted muscle up (1 rep, at 10 lbs) and weighted chest to bar pullups (10 reps at 10 lbs), which (even though 10 lbs is very little) somehow seemed impossible at the beginning of this program. Thought some people might be interested in the experiment, so I wanted to share the data. Now I am ready to go back to my normal twice-a-day crossfit and gymanstics training with climbing specific days incoorporated - and thus lose all my new found strength
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Post by MarkAnderson on May 10, 2016 12:17:29 GMT -7
... and thus lose all my new found strength Not necessarily. In my experience once you've attained a new level of strength it's much easier to return to it (than it was to attain it in the first place).
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ericg
New Member
Posts: 42
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Post by ericg on May 10, 2016 21:24:05 GMT -7
I find this to be true as well. In high school I was into weight lifting and somewhat respectable at it. It is always surprising how little training it takes to get back to the weights I used to lift. And I graduated in 2002.
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