Tension Board vs Moon Board

[tetrault]

Thanks for the responses. Interested to hear the review erick.

[avaserfi]

Nov 21, 2017 8:26:42 GMT -7 jonfrisby said:

@charlie S True. Got any recommendations on nice 7s and 8s that don't do that?

Check out 'Jloop'. It has a cross, but is very different from most other MB problems. I thought it was outstanding.

Nov 21, 2017 12:08:29 GMT -7 tetrault said:

Thanks for the responses. Interested to hear the review, erik

I'm interested in his review too. I've found the Tension board an outstanding training tool. I'm ending up on it far more than I am the moonboard which sits beside it. With the current group of setters, I've found the finger strength isn't the limiting factor in me sending, but proper body positioning and use of lower body power (moving from the hips). I have noticed that as more people are using it, a larger variety of styles are popping up in the climbs. 

[erick]

I have also found body position and movement in balances to be the key thing that holds me back on this wall. That mirrored setup is the real deal. It is common for a problem to be flashable on one side and stopper on the other. On the tension board some V3s can feel desperate and I can really tell its because of certain movement skills that need lots of work. We will see how this all translates into my performance phase in December.

Eric

[daustin]

Question: are the 411 problems all distinct hold variations that can have different grades at different angles? or is it more like there are actually ~100 problems that have 4 different grades at different angles?

[erick]

Current problem list is now up to 458. All distinct, each problem has an info tab that lists if the wall angle that problem has been climbed at and if has been done at a different angle and what the suggested grade is for that angle, 40 degree seems to be default. If you have an iphone download the app and check it out.

[tetrault]

Nov 22, 2017 10:15:19 GMT -7 erick said:

I have also found body position and movement in balances to be the key thing that holds me back on this wall. That mirrored setup is the real deal. It is common for a problem to be flashable on one side and stopper on the other. On the tension board some V3s can feel desperate and I can really tell its because of certain movement skills that need lots of work. We will see how this all translates into my performance phase in December.

Eric

You are doing well selling me. You should ask Tension if they would offer you a commission if I can scrounge up the cash and training time with the new addition to the family. As a side note, I asked Tension a bunch of questions about the board. They were very quick to respond. There are only 10-15 boards out there at this point - quite a new product.

[avaserfi]

Since we are comparing the two, here is something I've posted a few places when asked about the differences between the Tension and Moonboards. I wrote it originally two months ago, some quick updated thoughts are at the bottom.

I'm not affiliated with either company, but have climbed on both boards extensively and have the fortune of beta access to the Tension Board app. That said, here are some quick thoughts on the boards.

The Tension and Moonboard share similarities, but they are also fairly different. They both have set holds and apps with the possibility for lights.

Side by side picture.

If you look at the pictures, you'll see the hold density on the TB is far greater. The TB has a number of holds far easier and harder than the MB. Even at 40 degrees this allows for problems as easy as v1. While easy problems are possible, those well into the double digit range are easily possible too. Using the app to create problems of varying difficulty one can also specify if a hold is foot only.

The holds on the MB tend towards half or full crimping and at times are awkward or uncomfortable, very similar to climbing outside. This can be helpful in preparing for a project, but I've also found that too many simultaneous MB sessions lead to tweaky fingers for me.

Especially when new, the MB holds can eat skin. After multiple sessions on the MB my skin feels very tough and ready to go for real rock. In contrast, the wood holds on the TB are much more skin friendly and comfortable to hold. I can climb on them longer with far less irritation, but my skin becomes more sensitive if I spend a majority of my time on the wood.

One of the coolest aspects of the TB is mirror aspect. The app (currently in beta) allows for mirroring a problem at the touch of a button tracking sends in both directions. The mirror aspect is illuminating certain weaknesses. For me, some problems feel grades apart when mirrored.

I think both boards are excellent training tools, but not entirely sufficient on their own.

Moon is releasing two new hold sets and a screw on foothold set. They are to ship sometime in November and the new setup release is early December. The new handholds will fill out the rest of the empty spots and the footholds will go in half spacing at the bottom of the board. From what it looks like the option to set foot only holds will become a possibility with this new setup as well. This should help make movement on the moonboard far better and more interesting with appropriate setting. The new sets from Moon brings pricing closer between the two companies.

I've climbed problems on the tension board where one side feels multiple grades harder than another. In the most obvious scenarios I've found myself making an extra 3-4 foot movements in one direction than another to make up for a flexibility or strength weakness on one side. I don't have any specific videos of such a discrepancy, but here is a video of me climbing a problem both directions at half speed. Its pretty interesting to see the subtle body positioning differences between the two. 

Regarding problem count. The current problem count is of distinct problems, not every problem including every angle. It does include unfinished problems or problems sent at another grade. For example, you can post a problem without having sent it. It gets listed as a project at all angles. If someone sends it at 20 degrees it will show their FA and the suggested grade while keeping the problem a project at all other grades, as it is sent at multiple grades it filters in that information, but still only counts as one problem in the total tally.

Lately especially, I've been gravitating more towards the Tension Board. This is partly to save my skin and because of the novelty, but I am really enjoying the mirror aspect. I've been videoing myself climb and noticing subtle differences, but also large ones that informs my training and highlights weaknesses I didn't realize I had. At higher grades I've found foot and hand placement far less forgiving than the moonboard. The wood is slick and doesn't allow for any lazy core engagement or reliance on friction to overcome good positioning. I've also found I can't just power through some moves for the same reason. Finesse is the key and its humbled me on some easier problems. 

[tetrault]

Great post, thanks. Do you feel that the tension board (vs moon) has an unrealistic amount of pinch holds when compared to real roped climbing?

[avaserfi]

Nov 23, 2017 16:59:33 GMT -7 tetrault said:

Great post, thanks. Do you feel that the tension board (vs moon) has an unrealistic amount of pinch holds when compared to real roped climbing?

I haven't felt like there are too many. The board is packed with holds in general. There are a number of pinches on the board, the fat rounded pinches feel more like bouldering pinches or tufas. The smaller screw on pinches feel more like something you'd see on a route or boulder. Some problems make use of the pinches more as gastons or open/half crimp edges too.

[erick]

Its a bit contrived but you can use all the small pinches as crimps if you want to make things harder for yourself.

[nkane]

Oct 17, 2017 20:55:06 GMT -7 climbnkev said:

I was fortunate enough to build a fixed angle Moon Board and Tension Board for Avaserfi and finally get a chance to climb on a Tension Board and Moon Board side by side.  I immediately gravitated towards the Tension Board, as not only were the holds amazing to climb on, the ability to do mirrored moves was a breakthrough.  It is really what separates the Moon Board(a standardized bouldering wall), from the Tension Board(a systematic training tool).  I immediately went home and purchased the small hold set and foot set to install on my hybrid Moon Board.

I feel that the symmetrical nature of the Tension Board is most useful for discovering inherent weakness in your climbing form.  Consider how often the difference between doing a limit move or not is less about gaining strength then about learning ideal body position.  What if you could train the mirrored move for every limit move you perfect.  Once you start this process you begin to realize what a powerful tool the Tension Board is.  Why is this move so much harder with my left hand?  Why can't I keep my right foot on?  It is the answer to these questions that leads to technical improvement.

The Tension app allows for fine tuning the difficulty of a problem as easy as adjusting the wall angle.  With 5 wall angles programmed in the app and with mirrored problems, a single Tension problem has 10 possible variations and the ability to log your progress at each angle and mirrored problem.

I have been climbing on a hybrid Moon/Tension board for the last month now and am finding myself spending the majority of my limit bouldering time working on the Tension holds.  I am limited to the small hold set because of the current layout which also means I am training primarily at 20-30 degree wall angles.  When possible I think I will phase out the Moon holds and replace with the additional Tension sets.  

Climbnkev - looks like you used Tension holds on an outdoor wall - how have they held up to the elements over the last year-plus? What kind of climate do you experience in your backyard?

I'm really interested in putting a freestanding wall in my backyard but am a little worried about protecting Tension holds from moisture.

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[solwertkin]

So I took down my Moonboard for a year to do a big house project and just recently put it back up. Over the year it was gone I spent a decent amount of time on erick's Tension Board as it's only about 3 blocks from my house. 

My initial thoughts on Tboarding: 

• Some big holds and legit V0-V3 warmups. How refreshing!
• Really sucked at keeping my feet on ad holding swings initially, but as it's supposed to do, learned how to better hold body tension and got much better at rooting.
• Much less condition dependent on the wood holds, a big bonus in HOT mid summer sessions.
• Much less skin taxing on wood holds. Kool!
• Hard to see the LED lights under the big wood holds and would have to flag my foot under the hold at times to see if it was lit before using it as a foot. 
• Full Tboard basically necessitates the LED system as the holds camouflage much more that the MB. 
• Incredibly better for ARCing and Aero Cap work. 

I was pretty convinced Tboarding was the way but no doubt missed my Moonboard. Back on the MB for a month or so some more thoughts: 

• Surprisingly and most notably: despite the Tboard having some very small wooden holds I am finding the stimulus on the Moonboard to be more finger intensive. 
• I find myself generally ending my Tboard session because I am getting powered down vs MB it's usually a combo of being powered down and worked fingers or simply worked fingers. 
• MB has a big con in not having small feet that can be foot only going up the board like a Tboard does. High steps on big holds is the general vibe on the MB and it was really nice to continue to tik tack using small foot holds on the Tboard. 
• Similarly I think the fact that you can use all the feet on the kickboard of a Moonboard is a bit of a con as it takes away from forcing you into figuring out specific beta. 

In the end, I would say that I am happy that I have a MB vs a Tboard. But also really stoked that erick has a sick tboard a 3 minute bike ride away. Seeing Eric climb a bit over the last year the Tboard has gotten him REALLY STRONG!

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[bill]

What is everyone's opinion of the new mini moonboard? it seems really short (2 4' panels at 40* with a kicker) so I don't know if it would be useful at all. Right now all I have is a 50* to 30* compound angle wall and a hangboard, which is hard but doesn't allow me any of the benefits of the moon or tension system. I'm limited to only my basement, so nothing taller than about 7.5' vertical would work for me. I climbed a bunch on a moonboard in the last year and loved it for limit bouldering, and plan on building one after I finish school and move again. My last home wall setup was a taller (11') 30* and an 8' 15* wall that I used for ARC training. The 15* felt too short to do any vertical climbing other than a single sit start move, which is what I am worried would happen with the mini moonboard. Is this just Ben Moon trying to squeeze an extra buck out of the increased demand for home walls or is there any practicality with this thing?