Skipping Campussing

[jetjackson]

Looking for some quick advice on campus for planning my current cycle out.

Currently red pointing 5.11+/5.12-, and max pull on campus is at 1-4-6, and 1-5-6 on small rungs. I've been told elsewhere that this is really out of whack, and that this kind of power is in line with someone onsighting 5.12+.

With that in mind, should I just skip campus workouts for the next few seasons and just do 3 or 4 limit boulder sessions before moving on to power endurance?
 

[scojo]

How are you at bouldering? If your campusing skill is really high relative to your bouldering grade, I would recommend replacing all of the campusing sessions with limit bouldering sessions.

It's pretty much always useful to improve your bouldering grade, so I'd be hesitant to recommend shortening the power phase unless you think you have little to gain in terms of power/hard moves.

[jetjackson]

ATM, depending on the gym V3-V4 onsight. Most V5's in 2-3 tries.

It's been a while since I did the litmus test outside, but hardest OS is I think V3, and hardest RP is V5. Those were at Hueco and HP40.

[Lundy]

Jet,
How are you measuring 1-4-6? Are you saying that, on small rungs with 22cm spacing, you're doing 1-4-6? Or are you counting intermediate spacing (i.e. the rungs are 11cm apart)?  We've had that confusion here before.

[jetjackson]

Pretty certain it's proper spacing, I've done this at three separate gyms now. Here is it at my local gym with campus board on large rungs - www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-RvqQJKuSA&feature=youtu.be&t=4m46s

I saw the small rungs at a gym back home in Australia over Christmas when I went home, so I thought I'd do a litmus test on it while I was there. Jumped on their small rungs and had no issues pulling 1-5-6, still a couple of inches shy of 1-5-7 though.

[octopus]

I am redpointing and bouldering around the same grades, and on a good day, I can campus 1-3-4... What the hell?

[scojo]

Jan 13, 2017 9:31:08 GMT -7 jetjackson said:

ATM, depending on the gym V3-V4 onsight. Most V5's in 2-3 tries.

It's been a while since I did the litmus test outside, but hardest OS is I think V3, and hardest RP is V5. Those were at Hueco and HP40.

I haven't climbed at those areas, but those grades sound pretty much in line with your sport climbing abilities. You will probably still get lots of benefit from the limit bouldering.

[jetjackson]

Jan 13, 2017 11:33:21 GMT -7 octopus said:

I am redpointing and bouldering around the same grades, and on a good day, I can campus 1-3-4... What the hell?

Everyone comes to this sport with a different background and different strengths I guess. Personally, I'd been doing weight training in the past, which included explosive pull ups and chin ups, and overhead press - I've also trained martial arts, which involved a lot of explosive power. Perhaps that's where it comes from. Similarly, I've seen climbers with similar or less time in than me, completely smoke me on finger strength.

Yeah, I think I'll stick to LB based on above advice. Was curious if there was any reason for campus apart from building power, that was important in the transition from strength, to power, to power endurance through the phases. I guess nothing that can't be gained through limit bouldering.

[alexandra]

yes, that does seem odd. I onsight V4, climb V5 within a few tries and have sent a few V6, but I can only do 1-3-4.5 on the small rungs anything bigger than that just seems impossible at the moment. Any advice on how you got to do 1-4-6 would be appreciated!

[jetjackson]

Have long arms and residual power from previous sports I'm bang on 6 foot, with slightly positive ape index.

I didn't 'get to' 1-4-6 and 1-5-6, the second campus session I ever did, over a year ago, I did that. So I haven't really improved from a baseline - I can't offer any useful advice.

[alexandra]

I do a lot of weightlifting and explosive pull-ups but I feel my power is not very high and its so hard to improve it

[aikibujin]

I would say it's hard to make any correlation between campusing ability and climbing grade, just like with hangboarding ability and climbing grade (which has been discussed here before). I think the campus board is a great tool to isolate and train pulling up explosively on small holds, timing the deadpoint, and latching a small hold. It's especially useful for climbers who climb too statically. But good dynamic movement in climbing depends on more than just your arms and fingers, it also involves pushing with your feet, generating body tension quickly (core recruitment?), body position, etc. All are better trained by climbing. The first time I watched that video of you campusing, I didn't think you lack the ability to pull up on and latch small campus rungs, so I think you can totally use limit bouldering to replace campusing.

On the other hand, I think campus training is fun, so I still train on the campus board even though I don't think I need to. I also had many years of background in martial arts, so strength and power (other than the finger strength to pull on tiny holds) have never been my weakness. So I tend to do a short campus session after my limit bouldering session. I know Mark recommends against doing campusing after other workouts, but for me, limit bouldering usually tax my technique/body tension/core strength more than my finger and arm strength. And since campusing is not a technique-heavy activity, I feel that I can safely do a short campus session after limit bouldering without worry about developing bad technique.

Having just said that campusing is not technique heavy, there are definitely "campusing technique" that can only be trained on a campus board. Looking at the video of you doing 1-5-6, you're not pushing down enough with your lower hand. This is a video still of me doing my usual wild swing on a campus board (so not exactly perfect technique). I'm working on the 1-4-7, this is the point right before I released my right hand. Notice my right elbow is above my right wrist, and I'm really "mantling" with my right hand at this point.


This is the video still of the moment before you released your left hand to reach up. The camera tilt makes it a little harder to tell, but I think your elbow is still level with, maybe even slightly below your wrist. So if you work on turning that lower hand into a "mantle", you should be able to hit 1-5-7 or even 1-5-8 pretty soon.


For an example of what both of us need to strive for, look at Mark doing the 1-5-8. At the point of release (the right frame), his right arm is almost completely straight, while pushing down.



Lastly, I think we should come up with some formula to normalize campusing moves with height and reach. You have a longer reach, so your 1-5-7 is very different from my 1-5-7. I propose something like: normalize_campus_move = campus_move * 70 / ( height + ape_index ), all measurement in inches. I'm 5'7" with 0 apex index, so 1-5-7 to me is 1-5.2-7.3, and to you is 1-4.8-6.8. But we don't have 0.2 or 0.8 rungs, so this is really a pretty pointless exercise other than to make me feel better. 

[jetjackson]

Sweet analysis! I see what you mean on the lower hand - that's definitely an area for improvement for me. Thanks for taking the time to do the screenshots etc.

I really enjoy the campusing, but it comes with risk of injury and I need to really control that risk as much as possible in the short to medium term this year. Last year I pretty much had at least some capacity limiting injury for 11/12 months.

[MarkAnderson]

Great post Boer, just one "correction". I do all my campusing AFTER Limit Bouldering (although on a campus day, I don't Limit Boulder for very long). A typical campus workout for me would look like:

ARC W/u ~10 min
WBL ~10 min
Hard Bouldering ~15-20 min
Limit Bouldering ~15-20 min
Campusing ~30-40 min
SEs

[aikibujin]

Jan 13, 2017 16:44:56 GMT -7 MarkAnderson said:

I do all my campusing AFTER Limit Bouldering (although on a campus day, I don't Limit Boulder for very long).

Oh ok, that makes a lot of sense.

Jan 13, 2017 16:06:39 GMT -7 jetjackson said:

I really enjoy the campusing, but it comes with risk of injury and I need to really control that risk as much as possible in the short to medium term this year. Last year I pretty much had at least some capacity limiting injury for 11/12 months.

Isn't the first rule of fight club... errrr.... the first rule of training, "don't get injured"? So yeah, even though campusing is fun, definitely skip it if you feel tweaky.